Temperature throughout flower

[EarLobe]

Afternoon all, quick one.

 

What's everyone doing with their groom temps as they progress through flower?

 

I've been sitting around 29-31 throughout veg and I've brought it down to 27.5 as I've come into flower.

 

Wondered what's best for the plants to be honest? Should I have kept the temps a bit higher, dropped lower or does it not matter so much? 

 

Atb

[DeltaMelter]

Start High end Low should do the trick.

 

27C is fine for flower maybe in the last 2 weeks you want to drop it to 25C to keep some terps but otherwise it's great for growth and photosynthesis (yield) so go for it. As it gets colder over Autumn it might naturally reduce a bit.

[EarLobe]

Thanks @DeltaMelter. Was along the lines I was thinking but wasn't sure how far it'd be safe to take it without affecting something.

[MindSoup]

I feel like this one is still very much a person preference thing/up for debate. I basi just keep my temps at 27-28C for the whole grow (unless the weather makes that difficult) but I increasingly hear people talk about dropping it down lower for the last few weeks. How low varies quite a lot, I saw one of Bruce Bugbees guys talking about 20-21C or something mad, not sure if I necessarily buy into that one myself. 

 

I can't speak from experience, I'm not scientific enough in my approach and I never run the same cut regularly so impossible for me to really say, but I don't see how dropping to 24-5C would cause any harm and it at least aligns with common sense that it would help preserve some terpenes/VOCs. 

[MidgeSmith]

4 hours ago, MindSoup said:

I saw one of Bruce Bugbees guys talking about 20-21C or something mad, not sure if I necessarily buy into that one myself.

My experience is only a dozen grows altogether, but I have to say, the cooler I have finished, the better tasting and smelling the results have been for me thus far.

Last crop I was doing 22 daytime and 18 at night max and I got lovely colours, taste and smells and rock hard buds on the plant which had the lowest DLI weirdly. The taste and smell was massively helped by use of the curing fridge though, so I am not claiming the results are valid.

[EarLobe]

I think I set 25 about the lowest I'd want to go because of the roots. I like to keep them at 25 near consistently so keeping the air temps there and above has just made sense.

 

I've been considering doing a grow coming into the autumn with temps a few degrees lower.

 

Got a diary up here at all @MidgeSmith?

[MidgeSmith]

I've never set the roots over 22C, though the tube temperatures take the soil temperature up to more like 25C.  I've never heard that it is necessary to keep soil temperatures that high, I think Ed Rosenthal said 22C is optimal, I just can't keep mine that low in the grow-room   I just make sure the water / feed is up to grow-room temperature before delivering it.

Yeah I think I have one on here somewhere.

Edited 19 hours ago by MidgeSmith

[EarLobe]

I've always monitored the root zone temps but it was only when I upped the temps down there that I noticed roots would just explode as soon as I had potted up. One year I think I watched roots pop out of 10L fabric pots from 5L plastics within 3 days. Ever since then I've just kept them high but I am tempted to have a play around to see what works best.

 

May be something particular to my environment but everything just seems super happy when all the temps are up. I think that's why I'm so apprehensive about lowering them now lol.

[MidgeSmith]

Yeah.  Personally I'd keep mine at 22C if I had the technology to do it simply, but it's never been a problem up to 26C in my tent, so I don't really mind either way.  As you suggest, if it ain't broke...

 

 

Edited 19 hours ago by MidgeSmith

[EarLobe]

I'm at 32 pretty much the whole way through veg but never pushed it passed that. Nothing went awry thankfully and my excuse was I needed to get the leaf temps up .

 

Winters around the corner with a whole new set of headaches yet!

[MidgeSmith]

Winter is better for me.  It's harder for me to lose heat than gain it the way I run.  32, fuuuuuck!  My leaf temps are only 1C-1.5C below Air temps.

Very interesting to hear though, thanks

I'm in soil.

Edited 19 hours ago by MidgeSmith

[MindSoup]

11 hours ago, MidgeSmith said:

My experience is only a dozen grows altogether, but I have to say, the cooler I have finished, the better tasting and smelling the results have been for me thus far.

 

I can't remember exactly, but I feel like he might have been saying low 20s all the way through. Should probably just find and post the video so I'm not getting it all wrong ....... 

 

 

As I was saying, I don't necessarily believe what he's saying, but these guys supposedly know better than anyone. As arrogant as it sounds I have stopped having so much bling faith in Bugbee, not because I think I'm more knowledgeable/intelligent than him but because I'm not sure we have the same goals. 

[Jimmeh]

1 hour ago, MindSoup said:

. As arrogant as it sounds I have stopped having so much bling faith in Bugbee, not because I think I'm more knowledgeable/intelligent than him but because I'm not sure we have the same goals. 

 

I don't think it sounds arrogant if you put it across as you've done, I think I see where you're coming from and i probably agree - i haven't watched quite as many bugbee vids as others may have done over the years but it strikes me that his analysis is often coming from the point of view of pushing the envelope of plant-productivity and "maxing-out" their health/performance etc, or at least inching toward a scientific understanding of what the plant's biology really wants/what the limits are, versus the rules we've handed-down that were "good enough" or the places in the world that happened to be close enough to right.  Kind of putting the scientific principal to work and as a fully paid-up geek who watches physics vids for fun, I love that  

 

But I doubt this perspective is going to be the entire picture - imagine if you maxed out human health and performance, just your daily grind would be a right ballache keeping up with all that, so you settle for running your body at less than 100% peak-everything in return for a life that's not a gym-grind, knowing that you're prob never going to be an adonis - and I think it's not exactly the same but similar here, we don't always have to push every little thing to the max-theoretical limit. Especially if it makes other, inter-related things easier to manage.

 

I sure as shit want to know what the best, up to date health & fitness advice is because I want to live forever and be fit AF, but I know that for lifestyle and personality reasons I would never follow half the advice and probably just aim for close enough, just like my (equally shit) growing.

Edited 7 hours ago by Jimmeh

[MindSoup]

Yeah that's basically what I'm getting at, I don't have the means (or inclination) to replicate his methods exactly and I'm aware that cherry picking random bits of one way and mixing them with another usually doesn't go well. He's talking from the perspective of elevated CO2 for a start, which probably changes a lot. 

 

His game is also a persuit of numbers, which makes total sense for what he's doing, but as most of us know, there's a lot about growing/smoking weed that can't really be quantified with numbers. I feel like certain nuances can end up overlooked and if nothing else the relationship between grower and plant becomes less affinitve. 

 

Like how most people are focused on THC percentage when it's really not the be all and end all of potency let alone the quality of the effects. And now people are focusing on terpenes as well when there's all manor of other VOC's/cannabinoids being produced that also contribute to the entourage effect in ways we do yet understand. So really neither of them are particularly good at defining a buds quality compared to just bloody smoking/vaping some of it and seeing how it makes you feel. 

Edited 6 hours ago by MindSoup

[MidgeSmith]

But we DO know that higher temperatures result in less aroma and flavour molecules than mid 20s for example.  Because they progressively ablate and degrade over the low to mid 20s. That doesn't mean you cant grow stinkyt, tasty weed at higher temps, but it is suboptimal.  Looking at nature, it is practically NEVER hotter at harvest time than at the crossover from veg to flower.  It just makes sense.

I wouldn't say that I am a disciple of Bugbee's, but I do think he is after the very most optimal output of HEMP and I don't think there is much difference between the high THC strains we grow, vs the CBD and fibre plants they focus on in Utah.

The best bet has always been to do your best and not worry and try to learn by your own findings as much as guessing by those identified by others.