English Oak Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) hi guys thanks for such a helpful and informative thread! ive used this to build my own automated watering system but am encountering some issues with water siphoning as when the pump turns off drippers are still dripping? what am i doing wrong? ive ran the drip line back to res and taped above water level! ive drawn a diagram to see how ive made it. there where two spare nipples on the manifolds so ive just joined them with a small piece of 4mm line. so what is the cause guys? thanks in advance! FSM Instead of having a complete circular feed ring, Cut it in half where it says "Spare outlets". Obviously plug both ends where you have cut and then run another anti syphon line back to the tank from the other feed antler. You will get better pressure. Even better- to help stop the syphoning I would just put one syphon line back into the tank from the main feed around 6 inches from where it exits the tank. Then the only syphoning you should get is what's left in the main feed line from the anti-syphon line point onwards. Just a quick note: by doing the above will also help ensure that the anti syphon line is above the fill level of in your tank. Edited March 21, 2015 by English Oak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsyrup Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Cutting the ring would cause uneven pressure, the drip lines closer to the stop ends would output more than those the farthest away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English Oak Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 If he cut the ring in the centre it wouldn't cause uneven pressure. I had feed rings in each of my pots and they were nothing but trouble until I cut them in half and plugged the ends and the pressure actually increased from a dribble to a squirt. Still had a ring but was in 2 half's that's all. As long as everything is the same length from the T piece onwards including the 4mm feed lines going to each pot there will be no loss in pressure. The 4mm feed lines need to be the same length as the 4mm feed line to the pot furthest away. They also need to be spaced at roughly the same distance on each half circle. All the while you've got a full circle going on you will have low pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English Oak Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) This will work, Just click on image, right click and select large to view. Picture missed some annotation: Obviously red line coming back into tank is the anti-syphon line and the feed line nipples only need to be just over an inch apart staggered either side of the main 13mm feed line. Simple Edited March 21, 2015 by English Oak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsyrup Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) If he cut the ring in the centre it wouldn't cause uneven pressure. I had feed rings in each of my pots and they were nothing but trouble until I cut them in half and plugged the ends and the pressure actually increased from a dribble to a squirt. Still had a ring but was in 2 half's that's all. As long as everything is the same length from the T piece onwards including the 4mm feed lines going to each pot there will be no loss in pressure. The 4mm feed lines need to be the same length as the 4mm feed line to the pot furthest away. They also need to be spaced at roughly the same distance on each half circle. All the while you've got a full circle going on you will have low pressure. The most water flowing will naturally be at the end of each half of the ring, and the lines lower down won't have as much water flowing through them. The resistance here is that the water can only flow so fast down the farthest most feed lines, the ones lower down won't have the same amount of pressure, they're "second" in the pecking order, if you like. I use a ring, or a square, with 'channels' along the middle of it, with 16 - 6 mm connectors. Water flows from both sides of the channel, and creates an even flow throughout because the pressure builds up in the channels. If I'd have had your problem I would've just used a bigger pump. Maybe my understanding of things is wrong, but in my experience a piece of 16mm pipe with a stop end in is not fit for purpose, the plants on the feed lines closest the stop end ALWAYS got more than those farthest away. Edited March 21, 2015 by Golden Syrup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English Oak Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) The most water flowing will naturally be at the end of each half of the ring, and the lines lower down won't have as much water flowing through them. The resistance here is that the water can only flow so fast down the farthest most feed lines, the ones lower down won't have the same amount of pressure, they're "second" in the pecking order, if you like. I use a ring, or a square, with 'channels' along the middle of it, with 16 - 6 mm connectors. Water flows from both sides of the channel, and creates an even flow throughout because the pressure builds up in the channels. If I'd have had your problem I would've just used a bigger pump. Maybe my understanding of things is wrong, but in my experience a piece of 16mm pipe with a stop end in is not fit for purpose, the plants on the feed lines closest the stop end ALWAYS got more than those farthest away. No it didn't work like that, not for me anyway. I went from a MJ 1200 power head pump to a japanese 2000ltr / per hour pond pump and it still didn't make that much diiff. The water would only dribble out of part of the ring not the whole of the rings. Like you mentioned the water only came out of the holes closest to the start of the rings. After doing some reserch I watched a YouTube vid on how to make the rings more pressurised if you like and the way forward was just to use two half circles to make a ring. After doing this I only had to use an mj 1000 to get the water flowing fully out of all the holes. From this Full Circle (This just didn't do the job even with a pond pump) To This Two Half Circles (This worked very well) This is how I tested the two methods Edited March 21, 2015 by English Oak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsyrup Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) Perhaps it's different when you're using those rings compared to just dripper stakes. But in my experience the method you're describing is nothing but a headache when it comes to everything getting the same amount at the same time. Not to mention you have two feed inputs and don't feed to any run off, its not really a conventional dripper so it's not entirely applicable imo. It's good for people to have lots of different methods though to find whats best for them and fine tune it to their needs as everyones is different, I don't want anyone to think im picking a fight or something Edited March 21, 2015 by Golden Syrup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English Oak Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) Perhaps it's different when you're using those rings compared to just dripper stakes. But in my experience the method you're describing is nothing but a headache when it comes to everything getting the same amount at the same time. Not to mention you have two feed inputs and don't feed to any run off, its not really a conventional dripper so it's not entirely applicable imo. It's good for people to have lots of different methods though to find whats best for them and fine tune it to their needs as everyones is different, I don't want anyone to think im picking a fight or something Oh no I didn't take it like that and your right it is a head ache entirely and I'll be honest with you I made this method obsolete from my last grow for a number of resons. One in particular and that is you have to keep the ring or two halfs supported above the medium so that id doesn't bury it'self and get clogged and also the ring needs to be more or less the same level all the way round to get an even sprinkle of water. Now what happens is that over a period of time the feed line supports start to sink as the medium gets more compact from top feeds so the rings are constantly getting distorted. The bigger and bushier the plants get the harder it is to get to the rings to level them up. So now I've just gone back to having a T piece going into the pot with two short lines on supports either side of the plant so the feed just runs straight out of the ends of the lines You can just see the lines in the pot of the plant in front coming off of the T peice Edited March 21, 2015 by English Oak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL20past4 Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 @@TheSaint Thank you so much for this thread m8, I've just set this up exactly the same as yous and its perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) @@NL20past4 Glad you like it m8, takes all the ball-ache out of growing! Edited May 1, 2015 by TheSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP22 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 @@TheSaint what pump you using in the flexi tank? I've just unboxed all my new gear and the maxi jet 1000 power cable doesn't reach over the top of my tank ball ache! I do see the foam float you have is that for the heater and ec meters etc? Or you got the pump tied to the bottom of that aswell? My last little hurdle and I'm ready to start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) @@TheSaint what pump you using in the flexi tank? I've just unboxed all my new gear and the maxi jet 1000 power cable doesn't reach over the top of my tank ball ache! I do see the foam float you have is that for the heater and ec meters etc? Or you got the pump tied to the bottom of that aswell? My last little hurdle and I'm ready to start @@GP22 im not sure what the pump i have in there to circulate the solution is m8, just any pump will do as long as it moves water the feed pumps however are Maxijets 1000's and are both on the bottom of the tank, my plugs for my res equipment are positioned on the wall roughly at the height of my res (see pic), this is so all cables reach to the bottom The foam float has my Temp/EC/PH probes thru it m8 and are left in 24/7 as i can push my loft door open with a fishing rod & see my Tri-meter without getting the ladders out Edited May 20, 2015 by TheSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeded Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 @The Saint. Thanks for this thread been an interesting read. Mine is slightly different in that I have three splitters on the main 13mm pipe with each having 2 4mm feeds coming off. I have also ditched the blue drippers and have the lines cable tied to them so they flow freely. Not used a filter or separate air line though upto this point and have noticed they all still drip slightly after the pump has been switched off on the timer, until I lift the pump out of the water for air for a moment and then drop back in so clearly is trying to syphon to the pots, albeit very slowly. Although the setup is slightly different I assume the same applies so would need an extra line from the 13mm pipe above the water level in the res, would you agree? Hols coming up so would like to rest easy knowing that the pond liners not full, though at the rate of syphon I suspect they would manage without flood quite easily, still be nice to have it spot on. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) @@Seeded Yes m8, an extra line feeding back to the res is what you need, that will let air in when the pump switches off, this will save you having to lift the pump from the water for a second to do the same thing. Hope that helps m8 Regarding the blue drippers, when i was growing (busted recently) id also done away with the blue drippers & was just letting it flow freely from the 4mm lines, worked a treat! Edited July 22, 2015 by TheSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeded Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Great thanks. Have got some leftover line I will use then but nothing to connect until I can get to the shop. Anything stopping me just putting a hole in it in the same place I would have done if fitted correctly? So without using any further pipe at all. I'm thinking it would have the same effect without having the line connected up but be good to hear if you can confirm either way. Sorry to hear that. Would you mind me asking what happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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