Bud Wiser Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Looks great doesn't she? Nearly a metre tall and plenty of bud-sites: AutoDaiquiri Lime at 8 weeks ... another 3 to 4 weeks to go. However, a couple of days back, maybe a week, I noticed that the plant didn't quite 'look' right. Couldn't put my finger on it, just a hunch. Then I realised that the lovely white pistils were losing their 'vibrance' ... sort of looking a bit greyish. On closer inspection ... Ouch. This looked a bit soon and 'wrong' for the plant, as I'd grown her before earlier in the season and this was different to 'normal' ... Also, there's something missing ... resin glands. So, onto Google, and found similar issues without suitable explanations, none of which seemed to fit. Logically, something wasn't right, so I had to get to the bottom of it. I'd taken pH readings, checked my feeding and watering schedule, water-logged? nope, deficiencies? doubt it, the leaves would show them first ... stumped. Then, back next to the plant taking even more pH readings, which were fine btw, I momentarily lost my balance and put some weight on the pH meter pushing the probes right down to the bottom of the bucket. The needle started fluctuating around pH5 ... bingo! methinks. My conclusion is that this is caused by a nutrient / salt build-up at the base of the pot, and the tap root no doubt is affected .. isn't this where the flowering hormones are generated? ... Am I correct in this assumption do you think? I've given her a thorough flushing ... yesterday I gave her several gallons of water, flushing until the run-out was almost clear. Today, I checked her pH at the bucket-base and it read ph6. Today, I repeated the flush, less water. I'm hoping now that the hot sunshine and high transpiration rate will help her to dry out ... I won't be watering her again for a fortnight I don't think! We'll just have to see if she starts producing some resin glands now ... watch this space. And if anyone reading this can throw some more light on the subject, I'd be all ears. Bud Wiser 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little willie Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 the plant looks in good general health > i don't think it is a nutrient problem (it doesn't look like you caused a buildup > doing good, nice colour etc) > they kind of look like they have been pollinated (if the browing travels down to the pistil) > if you can see any staminate parts in floral clusters ? have males around ? ....neigbours etc ?. ----------------------------- alternatively they can get damaged by environmental factors > banging them, wind rain etc. > maybe it was the hot weather causing stress ? or is there anything else you can think of ?. (think the "problem" is pertaining to the pistils anyway, imho > not the "plant" major) -------------------------- third and last, i would suggest, they are naturally closing @ 8 weeks (if 8 weeks flower ?, non-inclusive of veg ?), and you just got a low yield / resin pheno ? (although it looks like you may have a while left (???)) regards. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamafunkimunki Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 There is upward curling of the leaves at the edges in the close up, I think that happens when uptake can't match transpiration i.e mega hot sun, or with over feeding in hot weather. Could be loads of things mate thats caused the browning The pistils may have been exposed to water and sun which tends to burn pistils like that or just really strong sun could do the same, or hermi or male pollen from another plant, but it looks a bit of a shitter to me either way, the flower cluster doesn't look normal. Could just be a shit variant of the strain, it happens. Hope it picks up for you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Wiser Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 @@little willie @@iamafunkimunki First and foremost, thank you both for your input, much appreciated. I think I've sorted it.I'd grown and harvested this same plant only a month ago, so I could tell the pistils looked a bit grey-ish and not their usual vibrant white. The photos I've posted don't pick that up I'm afraid. The accidental pushing of the pH meter probes to the bottom of the bucket, only the last 2 inches (said the actress to the bishop!), showed a pH5 reading. The rest of the soil was fine at just under 7. I put this down to a nutrient / salt build up at the bottom. Logically, I think what was happening, was that the tap root was picking this up, whereas all the ancillary roots that don't reach down that far weren't Hence the plant looks healthy, but the production of flowering hormones in the main stem was being affected by the excess nutes and pH imbalance. This was causing the browning of the pistil tips in much the same way as nutrient burn in vegetative growth causes brown leaf tips, I guess. I noticed it was only affecting the tip buds, not so much the central buds, which is where most of the hormones are concentrated (the tips). This is the theory anyway. I've flushed her twice .. yesterday and the day before. Today she does look a bit better ... the pistils look a bit whiter and there's some definite resin production starting ... so I may have nailed it, time will tell. She's about 3 weeks off. Glad I spotted it. Bud Wiser 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little willie Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) it's good that you got it sorted etc > but i have never heard of the nutrients effecting the pistils only; i dunno tooooooooo much about nutrient synthesis etc (molecular level) > but pretty sure it happens in the leaves > ("roots > leaves > distribution where needed (?) (not in "food form") don't imagine that a "disorder" would be able to "bypass" the leaf "mechanism for photosynthesis ("making food")" but then be displayed in the pistil ?. would go to be akin to a "wireless connection" > imho ("leaf bypass") but i dunno..... (as above > can;t get head around ? (maybe stupid) only important thing, is mrs. daquiri lime... though. regards Edited July 21, 2016 by little willie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Wiser Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 Cheers @@little willie ... I'm not entirely sure either, man v. nature again I guess. It's just a theory, I haven't come across it before either. Even Dutch Passion Tony was stumped! But, like you say, Mrs Lime's the most important, and she's definitely perked up today, only slightly as it's early days, but enough to convince me that the flushing worked. Which further convinces me it was something to do with that last couple of inches of soil in the pot. Anyway, even if I could ask her what was wrong, she'd probably give me a long-winded 3-hour-long ultimately meaningless answer anyway, being female! (sexism fully intended btw). Bud Wiser 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little willie Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 hehe, it's pretty interesting that you can get higher ph around the place! (i always assumed it would "diffuse" about (??)) > maybe it is those little side "root view" cutous on the side of the pot ? > water leaches out sides, leaving "heavy" salt molecules to settle at the bottom ?.> not enough pressure (as side holes) to flush out the bottom ? > i always try to "make sure to get run off when watering", but may be inclined to make sure there's quite alot.... intersting though, seeing / thinking about process like that though, also talking to people thinking about biological function. happy growing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walnutpolecat Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 This made for a good read thank you. To be honest I'm surprised that there isn't more of this sort of stuff being shared. Iv been on here for about 6 months and still have to Google to fault find. Keep it up and thanks for the support with my grow. BTW what's ur feed water ratio. This is something iv found iv been doing wrong. It's not suppose to be feed feed feed 😕 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Wiser Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 @@walnutpolecat you may have hit on something there ... maybe an overdose of P-K nutes perhaps? @@little willie agreed, pH normally does diffuse, but if you check the following pics, you'll see the difference between the buds on the last one I harvested a month ago, and this one ... Last month's bud stage at the same growth timeframe, different plant: This plant's bud stage, same timeframe: Actually, comparing the two now, the leaves do seem to be a lighter shade, don't they? Bud Wiser 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little willie Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) hello, you can't compare two plants "vis a vis" > it's called "phenotype variation" > like siblings etc (you can get twins etc > 2 seedlings from one seed though...). the one on the bottom, is showing less of an over-abundance of nutrients (each plants have thier own demands > so same feed again for 2 different plants, will have different results ("depending on the phenotype" (within strain or comparing different strains (even more so)). honestly, and like imafunkimunki said > the leaf margins going upward, the pistils "browning" (it's quote common) facotring in the "anomaly" of the heat wave < pretty pretty sure that was what caused it (if had to bet). also i think, although i am not debating the ph levels > that roots can absorb beyond what we can see (i read a few inches from where obvious roots were (dunno ?). and if you think of it > 2" relatively speaking of compost, (vs. the rest of the capacity of your pot), is not alot, also considering that if it was "toxic" > it would just be a "dead zone" (i.e. "a little bit worse (because of toxicity (fixed at the bottom (not that big of a problem))) then having a pot that was 2" more shallow. so i think, honestly; it is just a bit of a "shitty looking pheno that didn't cope well with the heat wave". BUT you don't know how good a plant really is, until you try it... i think. but not arguing etc, just speculating. ------------------------ edit: but i think that taping up the side holes / poking holes in the bottom / or watering to ALOT of run off (the bottom) > would be good to help shift the ph problem ?, improve generally "efficiency" of medium ? regards, Edited July 21, 2016 by little willie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Wiser Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 @@little willie What if it wasn't a 'dead zone' when the tap root first arrived there?, but the contamination occurred later. Pretty convinced she's not a 'dud' ... she's grown nice and tall for an auto, plenty of bud sites, so I'm quite happy with her pedigree. No, this is something I'VE done! Shamed to admit it, but this is man-made. Minor at the moment, but could have turned into something major. I take on board what you're saying ... and thank you for your time, I know you're not arguing dude, your input is most welcome. I'm aware of pheno differences, plants from seed are like kids, every one's different! I noticed the lacklustre look of her before the recent heatwave however, so I'm sure it's not that that's caused it. The leaf margins pointing upwards was caused by the heat, yes, because that was the day I took the photos ... it was 33 deg C where I was! But I'm sure that's not related to the bud pistil issue. The lack of resin production was the 'alarm-trigger' for me ... and the double flush does seem to have worked ... I'll update in a few days. Gimme some trichomes and I'll go away and be quiet ... ha ha Bud Wiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little willie Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 hehe, that will be what have happened > nutes buildup altering ph, over time < but the key being "build up" / progression of problem / timeframe "slow" but your pistils were OK (last month) > then BOOM damage ? or no ? if it was the tap root / nutrient related > pertaining to "growth / function" > then you SHOULD have seen progression of the "problem" litlle bit, more MORE, (again though, your plants look in VERY good health > good nute levels, not taking the piss with nutrients etc (my plants are always burned) -------------------- like are you SURE (100%) it was the flush ? and not the natural ambient lowering / humidity increase ? > how can you be sure ?, plants IME take several days to respond properly to nute action (i.e. adding / ammending / flushing etc). i dunno completely, but i will bet you a "somewhat dissapointing" (human perspective > yield / resin), outcome to that plant (but please don't shoot the messenger!!) (UNLESS it is a VERY long flowering pheno and is about to pick up). if i am wrong, then you win with juicy flowers ?. sorry for just going "blah blah blah" "no no no" all the time... though, just interesting. kind regards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little willie Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 auto daiquri lime Outdoor yield: 70-240 g/plant Outdoors it reaches its full potential in dry/temperate/sunny/Mediterranean climates or in the pleasant atmosphere of a greenhouse /\ would correlate but 1) hopefully i am wrong and 2) some of my "dankest" flowers have been all raggedy, low yield looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Wiser Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 @@little willie I DO love breeder's specs. 'Full outdoor potential' means if you grow it in Spain ! Time will tell ... a grower's best weapon is patience. I'm confident ... Bud Wiser 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little willie Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 hehe, well, if i am right > don't forget that it means you are better at growing then you think you are (re: where the "fault" lies!). ...not many loosers around, when enjoying growing plants! (apart from the plants) hehe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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