No-till thread

[WhiteWolfe]

I had a couple of questions for the other no tillers out there mainly in regards to products to use.

I have been looking at brew shops for malted barley it seems to come in differnt types i.e. crystal malt 150, crystal malt 240, crushed cara malt etc... is there a preference for which is best for soil

For neem meal is the house of mistry greenit neem fertilizer good?

Lastly gypsum powder is used in the manufacture of tofu and lots of the asian stores stock it very cheaply, would this gypsum be ok to use in soil?

Thanks for your help guys.

greenie

I've wondered the same thing regarding Gypsum. Large bags in the Chinese supermarkets here for only a couple of quid. Hopefully, someone see's this that has successfully used it before.

Edited September 5, 2016 by WhiteWolfe

[Guest]

Think I paid £5 for a bag of garden gypsum that would do like 500 /1000 litres of soil easy. So why mess around risking something that's not right when the right stuff is so cheap. I mean plasters made of gypsum but I wouldn't put a cup of that in my mix!

[green_machine]

Hey Bobnudd

While I do agree with you in theory practice can be a different beast altogether. I know I can buy garden gypsum online very cheaply, but for various reasons I do not feel comfortable buying grow related products online (I have to say this extends to normal things as well I do very little shopping online as I had my ID stolen around a decade ago and it lead to around 3 years of hell as various people went around commiting fraud with my details)

Because of this I am limited to sourcing the products I need from local stores, I have been looking for gypsum in all the garden centres but I have not been able to find it yet, I had hoped this might be an altrnative for other people in a similar situation to me that could be sourced relatively easily.

While I was looking for suppliers of gypsum I came across an intersting article regarding the use of gypsum in home gardens I have copied it below:

Linda Chalker-Scott, Ph.D., Extension Horticulturist and Associate Professor,

Puyallup Research and Extension Center, Washington State University

The Myth of Gypsum Magic

“Adding gypsum to your yard or garden will improve soil tilth and plant health”

The Myth

Upon continued prodding from one ofmy university extension colleagues, I recently watched several episodes of a well-known gardening program on television. My kids joined me, alerted by my animated responses to the host’s non-stop torrent of advice. Among many amazing discoveries I learned that by adding gypsum to my yard or garden I would improvemy problem soils by changing the particle size and loosening compaction. Further searching on the web revealed that gypsum would also improve drainage, decrease acidity, and eliminate soil salts. Previously, I had heard of gypsum for use in soil reclamation projects, but not for a typical urban landscape. Since gypsum is simply calcium sulfate, could this chemical truly transform soil structure and serve as a fertilizer for yards and gardens?

The Reality

This myth falls into the category of agricultural practices misapplied to ornamental landscapes. Gypsum effectively changes the structure and fertility of

heavy clay soils, especially those that are heavily weathered or subject to intensive crop production. Gypsum also improves sodic (saline) soils by removing sodium from the soil and replacing it with calcium. Therefore, one can see improvement in

clay soil structure and fertility, and desalinizati on of sodium-rich soils, by using gypsum. What other effects will gypsum have on soil and plant health? There are a number of scientific studies on gypsum usage both in the literature and on

websites. Briefly, researchers have found:

•

Gypsum does not usually change soil acidity, though occasional reports of both increasing and decreasing pH exist;

•

Gypsum can increase leaching of aluminum, which can detoxify soils but also contaminates nearby watersheds;

•

Gypsum can increase leaching of iron and manganese, leading to deficiencies of these nutrients;

•

Gypsum applied to acid soils can induce magnesium deficiency in plants on site;

•

Gypsum applied to sandy soils can depress phosphorus, copper and zinc transport;

•

Gypsum can have negative effects on mycorrhizal inoculation of roots, which may account for several reports of negative effects of gypsum on tree seedling establishment and survival;

•

Gypsum is variable in its effects on mature trees;

•

Gypsum will not improve fertility of acid or sandy soils;

•

Gypsum will not improve water holding capacity of sandy soils; and

•

Gypsum’s effects are short-lived (often a matter of months) With the exception of arid and coastal regions (where soil salts are high) and the southeastern United

States (where heavy clay soils are common), gypsum amendment is just not necessary in non-agricultural areas. Urban soils are generally amalgamations of

subsoils, native and non-native topsoils, and – in home landscapes – high levels of organic and non-organic chemical additives. They are also heavily compacted

and layered (and gypsum does not work well on layered soils). In such landscapes, it is pointless to add yet more chemicals in the form of gypsum unless you need to increase soil calcium levels. This nutrient deficiency can be quickly identified by any soil testing laboratory for less than a bag of gypsum costs. (If

you need to improve sulfur nutrition, it’s wiser to use ammonium sulfate). To reduce compaction and improve aeration in nearly any landscape, application of an organic mulch is more economically and environmentally sustainable.

The Bottom Line

•

Gypsum can improve heavy clay soil structure and remove sodium from saline soils

•

Gypsum has no effect on soil fertility, structure, or pH of any other soil type

•

Most urban soils are not improved by additional gypsum

•

Before adding gypsum or any chemical to a landscape, have soil analysis performed to identify mineral deficiencies, toxicities, and soil character

•

Adding gypsum to sandy or non-sodic soils is a waste of money, natural resources, and can have negative impacts on plant, soil, and ecosystem health

For more information, please visit Dr. Chalker-Scott’s web page at

http://www.theinformedgardener.com

I am now wondering if the use of gypsum is necessary in living oranic soil, Don't get me wrong I am a biologist I understand the importance of Calcium to living organisms but I wonder if there would be a better way to add calcium to the soil? would appreciate everyones thoughts on this.

greenie

[Road_Runner]

I'm about to jump on the no till journey and have a question. I will be starting with 4 x 15gal pots. I know some people have 4-5 plants per pot. This is what I would want to do and my question is about cycles and mixed strains.

I would like to be able to put 2 long flowering Sativas (16+ weeks) into one of the pots - or 1 each in 2 of the pots. How does this impact on what I do beginning cycles and end of cycle for said pot(s)?

Are any of you already doing what I plan to do?

I'm not going to start off doing this - perhaps get round to it when I feel confident with the method. Future planning

Hey man, if you have a constantly flowering room just chop plants as they are ready, plant new ones in their place and wait for the long ones.

The soil is always ready, always perfect for any stage of growth.

Just chuck down a handful of Kelp Meal, Neem Meal every few weeks, MBP every couple and some fresh Worm Castings every couple months. It doesn't need to be exact, any probs just use a Kelp or Compost Tea.

RR

Edited September 6, 2016 by Road_Runner

[Lord Steppington]

Thanks @@Road_Runner - that information has made me so happy

[Irishgirl]

Very good article on gypsum greenie

[Road_Runner]

I had a couple of questions for the other no tillers out there mainly in regards to products to use.

I have been looking at brew shops for malted barley it seems to come in differnt types i.e. crystal malt 150, crystal malt 240, crushed cara malt etc... is there a preference for which is best for soil

For neem meal is the house of mistry greenit neem fertilizer good?

Lastly gypsum powder is used in the manufacture of tofu and lots of the asian stores stock it very cheaply, would this gypsum be ok to use in soil?

Thanks for your help guys.

greenie

Look for an organic malted barley powder, any probs drop me a pm.

House of Mistry Neem is the one!

Gypsum is Calcium/Sulphate so if it's the same stuff then fine. The above article is rubbisb in my opinion, it is missing the point of Gypsum.

RR

Edited September 6, 2016 by Road_Runner

[green_machine]

@@Road_Runner

Cool thanks for confirming that for me mate, I was a bit unsure of that article which is why I thought i would add it here and get everyone opinion on it.

If you have some time mate I would appreciate it if you could go into more detail in regards to the purpose of gypsum in living soil, does it do more than ammend calcium levels in soil?

I have also wanted to ask you if the amount of gypsum added to living soil should be ammended for hard water areas? As you know from my diary I am following your recipe but I was unsure if your recipe was specific for your water area.

Thanks for all your help.

Greenie

[Guest]

Hi @@green_machine, guess this is the dichotomy of large scale agriculture methods applied to small scale production / indoor gardening hey! Some of what’s discussed is only really applicable for Ag. The benefits of Gypsum, as listed below from US Gyspum look pretty compelling, but they would coming from that site

So what do we we want in Notill / organic soil…. Reasons for adding for me were to ensure adequate Calcium and for the Sulphur, and not wanting to use more Dolomite Lime due to the amount of Mg to C.

The Calcium in Gypsum is more readily available to improve Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC), so should improve the nutrient holding capacity of the soil. Of course you can get Sulphur from addition of ground malted barley too. If you were going to be using Coir in your mix then I would defiantly recommend looking into CEC of Coco and using Gypsum – else get a bottle of calmag

Sulphur has long been associated with increases in Terpene profiles and essential oils too – not just in our lovely plants

I’ve only recently added it into my soil mix for this run, so I’ll have to see, but in summary, you are going to have other sources of these additions if you’ve got decent EWC too, but it also provides a balance and different amendments to broken down over time and made available to the plant.

Benefits of using Gypsum on Soil - USA Gypsum

Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate - CaSO4) is one of those rare materials that performs in all three categories of soil treatment: an amendment, conditioner, and fertilizer. Soil conditioners, such as gypsum, are seriously undervalued compared to fertilizer usage. Dr. Arthur Wallace (Ph.D. Soil Science and Plant Nutrition) and Dr. Garn Wallace (Ph.D. Bio-Chemistry) of Wallace Laboratories in El Segundo, CA, U.S.A., believes that if soil structure ain't right, then nothing is right.

Lets look at it from the plants point of view. The bottom-line question here is AVAILABILITY. How much calcium sulfate (nutrition) is available to the plant to meet its gypsum requirement when it needs it? The same is true with the soil. If it does not get gypsum when it needs it, the soil may compact, prevent water and air penetration, lose its leaching ability and become saturated with salt or other excessive elements harmful to plant growth and health. Then the plant suffers from bad soil conditions. Poor soil structure is a major limiting factor in crop yield. The bottom line to the many benefits of gypsum is higher yield at a minimum cost.

Gypsum Improves Compacted Soil - Gypsum can help break up compacted soil. Soil compaction can be prevented by not plowing or driving machinery on soil when it is too wet. The compaction in many but not all soils can be decreased with gypsum, especially when combined with deep tillage to break up the compaction. Combination with organic amendments also helps, especially in preventing return of the compactions. (1)

Gypsum Decreases Bulk Density of Soil - Gypsum-treated soil has a lower bulk density compared with untreated soil. Organics can even decrease it more when both are used. The softer soil is easier to till, and crops like it better.(1)

Gypsum Helps Prepare Soil for No-Till Management - A liberal application of gypsum is a good procedure for starting a piece of land into no-till soil management or pasture. Improved soil aggregation and permeability will persist for years and surface-applied fertilizers will more easily penetrate as result of the gypsum. (1)

Gypsum Prevents Crusting of Soil and Aids Seed Emergence - Gypsum can decrease and prevent the crust formation on soil surfaces which result from rain drops or from sprinkler irrigation on unstable soil. Prevention of crust formation means more seed emergence, more rapid seed emergence, and easily a few days sooner to harvest and market. Seed emergence has been increased often by 50 to 100 percent. The prevention of crusting in dispersive soils is a flocculation reaction. (1)

Gypsum Decreases Loss of Fertilizer Nitrogen to the Air - Calcium from gypsum can help decrease volatilization loss of ammonium nitrogen from applications of ammonia, ammonium nitrate, UAN, urea, ammonium sulfate, or any of the ammonium phosphates. Calcium can decrease the effective pH by precipitating carbonates and also by forming a complex calcium salt with ammonium hydroxide which prevents ammonia loss to the atmosphere. Actually calcium improves the uptake of nitrogen by plant roots especially when the plants are young. (11)(12)(14)

Gypsum Helps Plants Absorb Plant Nutrients - Calcium, which is supplied in gypsum, is essential to the biochemical mechanisms by which most plant nutrients are absorbed by roots. Without adequate calcium, uptake mechanisms would fail. (7)

Gypsum Stops Water Runoff and Erosion - Gypsum improves water infiltration rates into soils and also the hydraulic conductivity of the soil. It is protection against excess water runoff from especially large storms that are accompanied with erosion. (1)

Gypsum Decreases Dust Erosion - Use of gypsum can decrease wind and water erosion of soil. Severe dust problems can be decreased, especially when combined with use of water-soluble polymers. Less pesticide and nutrient residues will escape from the surface of land to reach lakes and rivers when appropriate amendments are used to stabilize soil. Gypsum has several environmental values. (1)

Gypsum Improves Soil Structure - Gypsum provides calcium which is needed to flocculate clays in soil. It is the process in which many individual small clay particles are bound together to give much fewer but larger particles. Such flocculation is needed to give favorable soil structure for root growth and air and water movement. (1)

Gypsum Improves Fruit Quality and Prevents Some Plant Diseases - Calcium is nearly always only marginally sufficient and often deficient in developing fruits. Good fruit quality requires an adequate amount of calcium. Calcium moves very slowly, if at all, from one plant part to another and fruits at the end of the transport system get too little. Calcium must be constantly available to the roots. In very high pH soils, calcium is not available enough; therefore, gypsum helps. Gypsum is used for peanuts, which develop below ground to keep them disease free. Gypsum helps prevent blossomend root of watermelon and tomatoes and bitter pit in apples. Gypsum is preferred over lime for potatoes grown in acid soils so that scab may be controlled. Root rot of avocado trees caused by Phytophthora is partially controlled by gypsum. (9)(17)

Gypsum Improves Swelling Clays - Gypsum can decrease the swelling and cracking associated with high levels of exchangeable sodium on the montmorillonite-type clays. As sodium is replaced by calcium on these clays, they swell less and therefore do not easily clog the pore spaces through which air, water and roots move. (2)

Gypsum Makes Slightly Wet Soils Easier To Till - Soils that have been treated with gypsum have a wider range of soil moisture levels where it is safe to till without danger of compaction or deflocculation. This is accompanied with greater ease of tillage and more effective seedbed preparation and weed control. Less energy is needed for the tillage. (1)

Gypsum Prevents Waterlogging of Soil - Gypsum improves the ability of soil to drain and not become waterlogged due to a combination of high sodium, swelling clay, and excess water. Improvements of infiltration rate and hydraulic conductivity with use of gypsum add to the ability of soils to have adequate drainage. (2)

Gypsum Helps Make Stable Soil Organic Matter - Gypsum is a source of calcium which is a major mechanism that binds soil organic matter to clay in soil which gives stability to soil aggregates. The value of organic matter applied to soil is increased when it is applied with gypsum. (4)

Gypsum Increases Value of Organics - Gypsum adds to the value of organic amendments. Blends of gypsum and organics increase the value of the other as soil amendments, especially for improvement of soil structure. High levels of soil organic matter are always associated with liberal amounts of calcium which is part of gypsum. Calcium decreases burn out of soil organic matter when soils are cultivated by bridging the organic matter to clay. (4)

Gypsum Corrects Subsoil Acidity - Gypsum can improve some acid soils even beyond what lime can do for them. Surface crusting can be prevented. The effects of toxic soluble aluminum can be decreased, including in the subsoil where lime will not penetrate. It is then possible to have deeper rooting with resulting benefits to the crops. The mechanism is more than replacement of acidic hydrogen ions which can be leached from the soil to give higher pH. Hydrogen ions do not migrate rapidly in soils containing clay. It is suggested that the sulfate from gypsum forms a complex (AIS04+) with aluminum which renders the aluminum non-toxic. Also suggested is that the sulfate ions react with iron hydroxides to release hydroxyl ions which give a lime effect to increase soil pH. Gypsum is now being widely used on acid soils. (1)(6)

Gypsum has 15% Sulfate - Gypsum has 15% sulfate, which is the most absorbable form of sulfur for plants.

Gypsum Helps Reclaim Sodic Soils - Gypsum is used in the reclamation of sodic soils. Where the exchangeable sodium percentage (ESP) of sodic soils is too high, it must be decreased for soil improvement and better crop growth. The most economical way is to add gypsum which supplies calcium. The calcium replaces the sodium held on the clay-binding sites. The sodium can then be leached from the soil as sodium sulfate to an appropriate sink. The sulfate is the residue from the gypsum. Without gypsum, the soil would not be leachable. Sometimes an ESP of three is too high, but sometimes up to ten or more can be tolerated. (2) Gypsum Decreased pH of Sodic Soils Gypsum immediately decreases the pH of sodic soils or near sodic soils from values often over 9 but usually over 8 to values of from 7.5 to 7.8. These values are in the range of acceptability for growth of most crop plants. Probably more than one mechanism is involved. Ca++ reacts with bicarbonate to precipitate CaCO3 and release protons which decrease the pH. Also, the level of exchangeable sodium is decreased which lessens the hydrolysis of clay to form hydroxides. These reactions can decrease the incidence of lime and bicarbonate induced iron deficiency. (3)

Gypsum Makes Water-Soluble Polymer Soil Conditioners More Effective - Gypsum complements or even magnifies the beneficial effects of water-soluble polymers used as amendments to improve soil structure. Like for organic matter, calcium, which comes from gypsum, is the mechanism for binding of the water-soluble polymers to the clay in soils. (15) Gypsum Makes Magnesium Non-Toxic In soils having unfavorable calcium:magnesium ratios, such as serpentine soils, gypsum can create a more favorable ratio. (5)

Gypsum Improves Water-Use Efficiency - Gypsum increases water-use efficiency of crops. In areas and times of drought, this is extremely important. Improved water infiltration rates, improved hydraulic conductivity of soil, better water storage in the soil all lead to deeper rooting and better water-use efficiency. From 25 to I 00 per cent more water is available in gypsum-treated soils. (1)

Gypsum Makes It Possible to use Low Quality Irrigation Water - The effective sodium absorption ratio (SAR) of irrigation water should be less than 6 for some crops and less than 9 for others. When it exceeds these limits, gypsum should be applied to the soil or to the water. Use of reclaimed municipal waste water is important for conservation of natural resources. Reclaimed water can be satisfactorily used if amendments, such as gypsum and water-soluble polymers, are also used. Care must be taken, however, to avoid sodium build up in the lower horizons of soil because of excessive leaching when swelling clays are present. (16)

Gypsum Decreases Heavy-Metal Toxicity Calcium - also acts as a regulator of the balance of particularly the micro-nutrients, such as iron, zinc, manganese and copper, in plants. It also regulates non-essential trace elements. Calcium prevents excess uptake of many of them; and once they are in the plant, calcium keeps them from having adverse effects when their levels get high. Calcium in liberal quantities helps to maintain a healthy balance of nutrients and non nutrients within plants. (8)

Gypsum Decreases the Toxic Effect of NaCl - Salinity Calcium from gypsum has a physiological role in inhibiting the uptake of Na by plants. For species of plants not tolerant to NA, Ca protects from toxicity of NA but not Cl. (10) Gypsum Keeps Clay Off Tuber and Root Crops Gypsum can help keep clay particles from adhering to roots, bulbs and tubers of crops like potato, carrots, garlic and beets. In combination with water-soluble polymers, it is even more beneficial. (15)

Gypsum Helps Earthworms to Flourish - A continuous supply of calcium with organics is essential to earthworms that improve soil aeration, improve soil aggregation and mix the soil. Earthworms can do the plowing for no-till agriculture. (13)

- References - 1. Shainberg, I., M.E. Sumner, W.P. Miller, M.P.W. Farina, M.A. Pavan, and M.V Fey, 1989. Use of gypsum on soils: A review, pp. 1- 1 I 1. IN: B.A. Stewart (ed.), Advances in Soil Science, Vol. 9, Springer-Verlag New York. 2. Aldrich, D.G., Jr., and W.R. Schoonoever. 195 1. Gypsum and other sulfur materials for soil conditioning. Calif. Agric. Expt. Sta. circular No. 403. 3. Lindsay, W.L. 1979. Chemical equilibria in soils. John Wiley and Sons, New York. 4. Muneer, W., and J.M. Oades. 1989. The role of calcium-organic interactions in soil aggregate stability. El. Mechanisms and models. Aust. J. Soil Res. 27:411-423. 5. Jones, M.B., C.E. Vaughn, and R.S. Harris. 1976. Critical Ca levels and Ca/Mg ratios in Trifolium subterraneium L. grown on serpentine sofl-. Agron. J. 68:756-759. 6. Smyth, T.J. and M.S. Cravo, 1992. Aluminum and calcium constraints to continuous crop production in a Braziliam Amazon Oxisol. Agron. J. 84:843-850. 7. Epstein, E. 1961. The essecntial role of calcium in selective cation transport by plant cells. Plant Physiol. 36:437-444. 8. Alva, A.K., J.H. Graham, and D.P.H. Tucker. 1993. Role of calcium in amelioration of copper phytotoxicty for citrus. Soil Sci. 155:211-218. 9. Scott, W.D., B.D. McCraw, J.E. Motes, and M.W. Smith. 1993. Application of calcium to soil and cultivar affect elemental concentration of watermelon leaf and rind tissue. J. Amer. Soc. Hort. Sci. 118:201-206. 10. AkhovanKharazian, M., W.F. Campbell, J.J. Jurinak, and L.M. Dudley, 1991

https://www.usagypsum.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/AMI-tech-general.pdf

[Road_Runner]

@@Road_Runner

Cool thanks for confirming that for me mate, I was a bit unsure of that article which is why I thought i would add it here and get everyone opinion on it.

If you have some time mate I would appreciate it if you could go into more detail in regards to the purpose of gypsum in living soil, does it do more than ammend calcium levels in soil?

I have also wanted to ask you if the amount of gypsum added to living soil should be ammended for hard water areas? As you know from my diary I am following your recipe but I was unsure if your recipe was specific for your water area.

Thanks for all your help.

Greenie

Gypsum is purely for Calcium/Sulphur, I don't have any other reason to use it.

One thing for sure Never Ever Ever use CalMag in living soil!

Just put in 3-4 cups per sqft and it will cover you for ever... It will be slow release so hard soft water makes no difference, it will just be brkmen down over time as required.

RR

[spondy]

This thread just keeps getting better loving all the info keep up the good work,should be pinned

[Percygrower_420]

So these are the little fella's breaking down our nutrients

[muffintop]

After a bit of experimenting I have found 16 litre fabric pots to be the magic number when growing autoflowers with no-till, just smashed my old coco record.

Edited September 27, 2016 by muffintop

[Irishgirl]

Nice one muffintop, any pic?

[muffintop]

I don't do pics I'm afraid, start a no-till grow and find out for yourself. I forgot to add that they can be moved easily which is a requirement for me, if I was growing photo's I would have a massive non-movable 60 litre beast.

Edited September 27, 2016 by muffintop