The Venus Project

[Phaze420]

Unfortunately cannabis doesn't factor into his utopian ideal

How so?

And stop using that word Utopia. There is no such thing and never will be just like there will be no finale frontier

[The Black Sheep]

Petition signed and chequebook out now how much was it you said you needed ?

TBS

[Phaze420]

I quite like money, we currently have Charles Darwin on the reverse of the £10 note and the great Darwin trumps your beloved Jaques Fresco.

This post has been edited by AngryAfghan: Jun 1 2010, 11:10 AM

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

How can you have this as your signature.

[Phaze420]

Petition signed and chequebook out now how much was it you said you needed ?

TBS

Damn dude your funny!

[Archangel]

The Venus Project is neither Utopian nor Orwellian,

Its very Utopian!

nor does it reflect the dreams of impractical idealists.

of course it does

Instead, it presents attainable goals requiring only the intelligent application of what we already know. The only limitations are those which we impose upon ourselves.

Yeah they're the only limitations, there's no such thing as gods/aliens, the illuminati, Jewish global greed and manipulation, socio-political complexity's and this planet isnt one giant business dominated by insane mega corporations and megalomania military industrial complexes, its me that has the power is it?

I suggest you visit my friend Arbuscules favourite web site, its called www.wakethefuckup.com

[Phaze420]

[quote name='Archangel' date='Jun 3 2010, 12:06 PM' post='2244170

Yeah they're the only limitations, there's no such thing as gods/aliens, the illuminati, Jewish global greed and manipulation, socio-political complexity's and this planet isnt one giant business dominated by insane mega corporations and megalomania military industrial complexes, its me that has the power is it?

I suggest you visit my friend Arbuscules favourite web site, its called www.wakethefuckup.com

Yes I know about the Burgundy group and all those fuckin bankers and corps but they are only a hand full of people.

And yes you do have the power.

[Guest Logik]

can zeitgiest prove we have the power?

[Hir]

Looks like a plan for a Brave New World to me.

If you agree sign this petition

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/The-futur...manity-Deserves

My meaning was that a Brave New World is dystopia, not that it was a plan for a utopia. You, know, Brave New World, Aldous Huxley?

[Phaze420]

Just give your cash to me instead

I'll show you how to fly

Im not talking about cash you static shit!

I guess you didnt get the joke

Zeitgeist movement is based on Modified communism, in specific marxism, such as getting rid of the monetary system and solving the problems of Scarcity which communism had.

It assumes crime will disappear when resources are abundent and wants to eliminate labour to increase quality of life

My personally Opinion, I went to the FAQ page and found a lot of alarming shit, such as dictatorship, replacing government with computer analysists, engineers and whatnot is still a government yet they make it sound like their will be no government.

The Zeitgeist system aspects people to stop labouring, not everyone can work at a computer, some people like labouring jobs.

"# What about drug addict and achoholics?

They can be educated out of the need for requiring artificial stimulants. Life would be much more interesting, exciting and always evolving.

All drug addicts would be taken care of and provided with the necessary treatment to overcome their problems without the dependence on drugs, alcohol or tobacco all without a price tag. Not using money would eliminate the sale of drugs, prostitution, etc.

In a society where people are brought up with access to information, and resources there would be far less stress or need for these artificial substances.

Meditation, exercise and other means in many instances will serve to relax tensions. People would also learn how to express themselves without needing substances to say what they think.

"

There stance on drugs ^^

The social design essay practically ripped from books about Marxism, Social Utopia and Anarchic text on governments, this guy has added a modern theme to everything.

As he even had, society changes, whats to stop his idea of society changing, as its supposed to be the perfect society

# Will people all be alike?

Yes in these ways:

• Interested in latest science and technology

• Never accept anything unless fully explained

• Not judgmental of different cultures

• Curious of things that are new

• Instead of few people carrying the nation many will participate

• Allegiance to methodology, will have ability to solve problems and recognize that contributions come from all different cultures thus helping to eliminate prejudices

• Share resources and ideas

Yay more social engineering & I guess that gives the scientist dictators basis to use facts and rule over everything does'nt it. Somethings can be explained with facts.

... oh wait your interests are social engineering nevermind

Interests Well first of all cannabis, and all types of music. Botany and social engineering.

# How do "Restless Teenagers" fit into the system? Or rather, what is available for them to do?

Although many forms of arrogant behavior and racial prejudice have been with us for centuries it is because the conditions that produce this behavior remain relatively unaltered. Insane behavior cannot be changed unless the conditions responsible for it are removed.

From our point of view the difference between a peace loving humanist and a warlord will not be found in the genes of the individual but in the environments they live in.

Most of the education of the future will be that of a generalist in which people are exposed to many of the factors that comprise the web of life and their interrelationship.

Behavior in a resource-based economy will reflect that culture. Will all people then be alike? Yes in certain areas. They will all work to protect the environment and extend maximum courtesy to one another regardless of race, color or creed. They will promote individuality and creativity and reject the notion of any final frontiers.

During the transition from a monetary based society to a resource-based society many of the older patterns will still prevail.

Children have insatiable curiosity. The aim of the future is to harness this rather than to destroy it.

All it takes is 1 bad egg to infect the rest, what do they plan to do with the current population of 7 billion people?

# How will people get along in the Middle East? How will the question of religion be resolved?

In a resource-based economy there is material gain for everyone if their country participates in a project called common heritage which will advance all nations. Those that refuse to participate will miss the advantages gained.

Everyone is free to practice whatever belief system they have but can not force it upon others. Everyone can go anywhere they want to without restrictions of any kind. If they fail to behave constructively they are helped rather than put in prison or punished. There will be a constant effort to help present the advantages to even those nations who feel that they want to go it alone.

This will not interfere with their religious beliefs, social customs of traditions. These can not be forced out, you can only educate out beliefs that are irrelevant. We prefer to use that approach rather than a military one. Although it may take longer, we feel they will eventually see the advantages of this point of view of joining together and sharing resources, just as all of the United States joined together and the fighting between borders stopped.

All of these countries have resource shortages and we feel they will see the advantages. Nothing is forced upon them.

Oh but there will still be a military? nice

# What about food? Would people eat meat?

Food and nutrition would be based upon personal preference and if studies indicate that eating living animals are detrimental to health the information would be there for all people. Through time and education and the manufacturing of synthetic proteins we could do away with killing fish and animals. We can not outlaw what to eat but we can outgrow the need for eating animal protein. During the transition to a better diet for those who need it we could also develop foods that taste and feel just like the ones they like eating but are healthier for people.

We are also against experimenting on animals or people.

Since sooner or later under this plan our genes for physical features will become recessive, we would all be smaller in size and weaker since machines are going all the jobs. Might as well all be vegans?

If a fucking study told me meat is bad for you (We already know it is in excessive amounts), I'd tell them to buzz off.

# What about the use of drugs in the future?

There is a tremendous incentive today for the selling of drugs and making people addicted as it is very profitable. Yes during the transition there will be problems because people need and require drugs. They will be able to attain them. But there will be more information out in regards to the negative and positive effects of taking various drugs. There will also be a tremendous amount of help for those who want to get off of them but today they can not afford the facilities. There will be no moral judgments with the rehabilitation from drugs but the main concern is health both physically and mentally.

We ultimately hope to provide an environment that is interesting and challenging enough that very few people will have a need for drugs. Through education and a much less stressful atmosphere the need will be surpassed. People will be equipped with a healthier mental outlook or better tools for handling situations that confront them.

So much for our freedom..

Overall sounds like a nice idea, but when you get down to the fine details which matter, its terrible, its all about efficiency, who does'nt want to save the planet? but who wants to be fed and carved into a single suit of human beings all doing more or less the same thing, learning about the same thing, being told day in day out the same things.

It just replaces Marxs' version of working class ruling over computers ruling, which will most likely be manipulated just like capitalism and the so called free market.

I said you might as well give me your money because its a money draining scheme. 45 dollars for a book, 300 dollars for the dvd set - and this guy talked about getting rid of the monetary system because it was unfair?? Don't be so gullable

The Venus Project is not just non-profit?

•January 18, 2010

Zeitgeist members are generally aware that the Venus Project operates under a non-profit 501c titled ‘Future by design’, but they are blind to the fact that it is a for-profit organization as well.

hlink removed

“Venus Project Inc is a private company located in Venus, FL. Current estimates show this company has annual revenue of $120,000 and employs a staff of approximately 2.”

The Venus Project, Inc. also currently operates under the name “Global Cybervisions” and was actually established in February, 1995.

Reference:

link removed

Donations to the Venus Project via their website go to their non-profit sector, Future by Design, which had revenues of approximately $28,000 in 2008. Other revenues go to the for-profit sector (Venus Project, Inc./Global Cybervisions), which is not listed anywhere on their website.

The fact that the Venus Project is secretly operating under three names is dubious, since Zeitgeist members are currently laboring for the Venus Project under the impression that there is no profit motive involved.

Thanks to David Szemerda for pointing out elements of this matter.

hxxp://anticultist.wordpress.com/

Here is Noams point of view

Noam Chomsky on Zeitgeist & Venus Project

“I don’t regard The zeitgeist Movement as an activist movement. Rather, it seems to me to be a very passive movement that is misled by doctrines that have a pleasant sound, but collapse on analysis. Among them is the idea that we should “stop supporting the system” and should not “fight it,” that is seek to change and overcome it. That means that we should withdraw into passivity. Nothing could be more welcome to those with power. My feeling is that however sincere the leaders and participants may be, the movement is seriously misguided. It is not leading towards change, but is undermining it by encouraging passivity and withdrawal from engagement, and offering a false sense that some real alternative is being proposed, except in terms so abstract and divorced from reality as to be virtually meaningless.” Noam Chomsky [2009]

link removed

This is a response made to an email sent to Noam Chomsky regarding his thoughts about the venus project/zeitgeist movement, interestingly Peter Joseph did attempt to validate his stance with a counter on his radio show dated 30th December 2009 on the website front page, but it was pretty futile.

Chomsky has the movement nailed, they are not based in reality, economically, scientifically and even practically.

While Chomsky makes a valid point he has no solutions, but neither does the venus project, read my blogs why i say that if you disagree.

0ne important thing to note about this academic making this statement, the fans of this project gladly jump to the conclusion, “Chomsky has not read the materials, and has not watched the movies”.

While this is an absolutely ignorant argument, since they have no evidence to say otherwise [other than an interaction 12 months earlier], it proves how desperate they are to cling to their values, even if it means discarding one of the worlds foremost academics.

Should Chomsky have made a review that agreed with their stance, they would have never made such bold claims, and would be quoting him as a believer everywhere online.

Another favourite is to attempt to state the email is false but the fact is, a member who supports zeitgeist mailed Chomsky and asked, in hope of his support, then posted it on their forum.

Chances are the more they attempt to secure academic support, the more they will encounter these realistic knock backs.

While researching this I remembered another member contacting Chomsky in 2008 and I searched the forums to locate his response and the interaction. Following is a relay of the emails between s.mussared and Chomsky, he also provided Chomskys email in the thread:

“I emailed Chomsky and asked if he had seen the Addendum film…obviously not expecting a reply. 30 minutes later I got this from him.” [s.mussared,2008]

“I haven’t seen it.” [Chomsky, 2008]

“Hello again Professor,I was quite surprised not only to get a reply from you but to get it so aptly. You are the first person of influence I have emailed and have gotten a reply from. My name is …[*steve lists personal details here] …and now I am looking to study applied economics with an interest in sustainable development in the third world.The video I inquired about has been quite an influential film directed by a young man like myself named Peter Joseph. He is a private film editor living in New York. The film addresses many of the fundamental flaws in society today. Unfortunately for me I am not gifted with the vocabulary or mental capacity to intelligently summarize what is discussed in the film. It is 2 hours long and in my personal opinion was worth every minute of my time watching it.I am asking what will it take to spark your interest enough to watch the film and provide some constructive feedback and criticisms of what is discussed.Thank you greatly for your time”[s.mussared,2008]

“I’m sorry my response was so curt. Actually, I’ve heard a fair amount about the film, by people who found it impressive. And what they told me did not encourage me to spend the time watching it.I very rarely watch documentaries. Two hours is a considerable investment of scarce time. Documentaries have considerable value, no doubt, and I’m glad that people make them. But by their nature, they aren’t reliable sources, except insofar as they inspire viewers to research what they depict and suggest. But at least for me, it’s easier and more productive to investigate those sources directly. It may be that I’m missing something important, but I won’t be convinced of that until someone who find the film important informs me about what that is. “[Noam Chomsky,2008]

Steve courteously replies explaining the documentary as best as possible and provides a link [*long post so i abbreviated it for ease of posting]

“Thanks for taking the trouble to outline the documentary. What you describe mostly makes sense, but with some qualifications. The Fed has been too much focused on holding down inflation, contrary to its formal commitment to increase money supply to achieve growth and full employment. And there’s nothing like unregulated free market capitalism. When it moves towards the Venus project — which I’ve looked at a little — my own skepticism grows. I don’t see how to implement the proposals, unless the institutions are taken over and placed under popular control. Boycott doesn’t seem to me a feasible option.I know Perkins’s books. They’re very good, but the trouble with them is that they are mostly personal experiences, hard to verify often, hence hard to use as evidence.I can’t really promise to view the documentary. Rightly or wrongly, there’s a lot of reading that seems to me of higher personal priority.”[Noam Chomsky,2008]

Ex-Member

I am also an ex member of the Zeitgeist Movement. I joined in December 08 and left the movement shortly after Z-day in March. When I joined, one of the catch phrases of the movement was “the movement is what you make of it.” This I found empowering and offered limitless possibilities. I was never into the Venus Project, as I saw it as unrealistic and irrelevant to our time, but I liked the first Zeitgeist movie and first half of the second one. When I went to the Z-day conference in New York I was disappointed to hear that the next big plans for the movement were to make a Hollywood movie. After stressing that the world was in peril and rallying its members to take action, a movie just didn’t fit the bill. It was then that I knew that the movement was a waste of time. When the Activist Orientation Guide came out and the movement officially became “the activist arm of the Venus Project” I was further disappointed because it was then that the movement closed it self off to all possibilities of change. I have posted this below on a couple other blogs and I am going to post it here:

Is anyone curious why there is so much hype going on about the Venus Project? The answer lies in the Zeitgeist Movement, which sole purpose is promoting the Venus Project. “Activists” are encouraged to use as many outlets as they can to “spread the word” and get more people interested in the Venus Project. They have about 370,000 members listed on their website. Then the curious wander onto the Venus Project website and either donate or not. In 2008 the Venus Project’s NPO Future by Design made about $28,000. Figures from 2009 are not yet available, but it is sure to be substantially more due to all the free advertising it is receiving from the Zeitgeist Movement. Meanwhile the objectives, which are clearly stated on the Venus Project website, are to first sell their materials, and then proceed to make a feature film. In fact the Venus Project seems to be so completely absorbed in its own self-promotion and movie production objectives that it forgot that its original intention was to build a test city. Members of the Zeitgeist Movement meanwhile are not given transparency of financial activities of the Venus Project. They are just encouraged to read and research more about the project and continue to spread the word. Dissenting views are not allowed on the Zeitgeist forum. Threads that offer opposing views (without sugar coating it), criticize, or demand transparency are often deleted, and the offending poster banned.

Zeitgeist members are encouraged to read and study a heap of materials in order to “educate” themselves and be able to “educate” the rest of the world. There are several books, speeches, and videos for members to listen to. There are weekly addresses given by founder Peter Joseph and the Venus Project. This is pure indoctrination tactics. Members become so absorbed in the fantasy of a new society that they forget the practical ways of attaining that society i.e. proving or disproving the claims that a Resource Based Economy is actually a viable alternative. Meanwhile members go out into the world and onto the net telling people about the Venus Project and directing them to their website. Funds indeed are being raised to support the Venus Project’s movie making efforts – more indoctrination materials. Money is also being used to fund a world lecture tour for Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows to such destinations as Copenhagen, London, and Cancun. All of this is in plain sight on thevenusproject.com.

Members are so passionate about the Venus Project that they tend to believe they are changing the world by engaging in arguments on the internet. They feel this way because of the rhetoric from Peter Joseph (who does not disclose his real name) and the rhetoric on both the Zeitgeist and Venus Project websites. The rhetoric leads one to believe that by supporting the Venus Project one will be helping to solve the world’s problems. Obviously, members can’t argue their way to a brighter future for all. What they need to realize is that anyone who goes around telling people how they SHOULD live and how the WORLD SHOULD be run, is going to be treated with skepticism. Their best argument is data and proof to support their claims. The activists fail to recognize that they are not participants in a humanitarian movement, but a very political one. The Venus Project and Zeitgeist Movement are a merging of the Technocratic Movement, and the New Left Movement of the 1960s, which is a tweaking of Marxism. This is not to state that the Venus Project is Communism, but a technocratic variation of it.

Now if the movement is as innocent as it claims to be, that would be even more frightening. It would mean that its members do not know the history of their own movement, know nothing of the New Left Movement, Herbert Marcuse, or the technocratic movement, and are operating on the premise that this is all new. Jacque Fresco is not the originator of the idea of machines performing functions in society in order to free people. Herbert Marcuse, the father of the New Left Movement of the 60s did. What is dangerous about the movement not knowing its own identity is that it makes it susceptible to be infiltrated or funded by special interest groups.

Why doesn’t the Zeitgeist Movement change its name to something that incorporates the Venus Project and state its objectives clearly on its main page instead of all the rhetoric? It would prevent confusion to what its purpose is, which is to promote the Venus Project. Members on the forum sometimes take on the role of armchair social engineers, even though they don’t have the background or power to make decisions as to how the future will be run. It is very delusional and illusory. Furthermore, it is outright fraud to call the movement an activist one, when it does not promote any real action at all.

The movement needs to be brought back down to earth, but the more people become indoctrinated into their belief system, the more they consider themselves to be “in the know” and others to “just not get it.” The movement is stagnant and forced into the position of defending its doctrine.

The fundamental problem with the Zeitgeist Movement is this: There are many different philosophies on how to run the world. When any one political philosophy claims to be THE ANSWER, including Capitalism, Communism, Technocracy, Theocracy, or whatever, one should beware. There are elements to Capitalism that are valid as well as Socialism. All should be taken into account when planning the affairs of the world. There is no one right way, and to think otherwise is to close oneself to all possibilities of change.

Venus Project/Zeitgeist members online Tactics

The spread of the Venus Project’s political ideologies is an organized effort.

If a member is having difficulty “debating” on the internet, they can appeal to the Zeitgeist forum and request backup.

On December 30, 2009, The Savage Khan posted a link to this article and discussion with the purpose of soliciting help with dealing with “dissenters.”

Link Removed

Not only is this a questionable tactic, but supports the claim that members believe that by winning a debate on the internet, it somehow proves the Venus Project ideologies to be correct. Luckily the moderator concerned saw fit to be sensible and ignore it.

This is certainly not the first time I have witnessed this, in fact I have witnessed calls for backup in their ventrillo server, and it is common practice for moderators and members to report back home to inform of dissenting voices on the internet.

While in numbers on their own forum they like to bash and intimidate and sensor, particularly when its a sensitive topic that makes them look ill prepared.

I have noted on many occasions while they are not an evil bunch, they certainly are biased/manipulative and like to win any argument through humiliation and active/passive intimidation tactics.

Zeitgeist members are encouraged to read and study a heap of materials in order to “educate” themselves and be able to “educate” the rest of the world. There are several books, speeches, and videos for members to listen to. There are weekly addresses given by founder Peter Joseph and the Venus Project. This is pure indoctrination tactics. Members become so absorbed in the fantasy of a new society that they forget the practical ways of attaining that society i.e. proving or disproving the claims that a Resource Based Economy is actually a viable alternative. Meanwhile members go out into the world and onto the net telling people about the Venus Project and directing them to their website.

I think I just saved your mind and other stoners

Amazing what you can find on the net

I think youll find this intersting. Its Peter Josephs response to Chomsky

Amazing what you can find on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwvXLWGLOgA

[Phaze420]

Looks like a plan for a Brave New World to me.

If you agree sign this petition

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/The-futur...manity-Deserves

My meaning was that a Brave New World is dystopia, not that it was a plan for a utopia. You, know, Brave New World, Aldous Huxley?

Fuck that book. And it's not a plan for a utopia there is no such thing!

[Guest Logik]

I commented about problems with the zeitgeist theory and you linked me a video talking about noam chomsky's opinion with zeitgiest and the reply by peter whatsisname talking about how much is doesnt like noam chomsky....

again you keep talking about its not utopia, zeitgeist is a utopia for zeitgeists just with a futuristic (possibility) theme.

but you've just said that theres no such thing as utopia, clever social engineering from the theory, getting its followers to read a bunch of manipulated works of other theorists and philosophists so that they think its right

There are holes everywhere in the theory - allowing machines to run a society which could be manipulated is worse than we have now

when you think about the target audience for zeitgeist movement, they are really lazy bums. anywho this fake communist (state-capitalist) idea of peter, he can keep it and continue to collect moneyz from his viewers and supporters

I wholy doubt that you will manage to indoctrinate people from the uk420 forums specially with that drugs policy

Edited June 3, 2010 by Logik

[Phaze420]

I commented about problems with the zeitgeist theory and you linked me a video talking about noam chomsky's opinion with zeitgiest and the reply by peter whatsisname talking about how much is doesnt like noam chomsky....

again you keep talking about its not utopia, zeitgeist is a utopia for zeitgeists just with a futuristic (possibility) theme.

There are holes everywhere in the theory - allowing machines to run a society which could be manipulated is worse than we have now

when you think about the target audience for zeitgeist movement, they are really lazy bums. anywho this fake communist (state-capitalist) idea of peter, he can keep it and continue to collect moneyz from his viewers and supporters

I heard something different. I heard Peter say he respects Noam.

I guess unfortunatley the world will either have a great disaster or the complete opposite to get people to atleast listen and honestly think about what is going on.

[Phaze420]

People are free to do what they want there are no polocies no laws nothing. I REPEAT NOTHING that controls humanbeings

Where did you hear about this drug policy?

[Phaze420]

"I wholy doubt that you will manage to indoctrinate people from the uk420 forums specially with that drugs policy."

Not trying to indoctrinate people. I just believe that people should be presented new ideas and information.

[AngryAfghan]

Unfortunately cannabis doesn't factor into his utopian ideal

How so?

And stop using that word Utopia. There is no such thing and never will be just like there will be no finale frontier

As already noted in the Venus Project aims posted by Logik: "Not using money would eliminate the sale of drugs"

Edited June 3, 2010 by AngryAfghan