Paganism

[VapeApe]

As has already been stated, Christianity did a really good job of blotting out everything before it.

By pillaging, killing and converting.

Neo Paganism is what we are left with today, resynthesised ideas.

There are some traces of ancient Paganism left in Scotland & England.

Mainly Sun and crop worship.

The Green Man is an interesting Pagan relic which you should check out.

Also check out The Gundestrup cauldron.

Btw "Paganism" just like "Witch"

Is actually a Christian Slur

Why does christianity , as one of the newer religions have to dismiss paganism? I mean where or what religion is most in tune and original?

I'm agnostic but i feel pagans had a greater understanding of our habitat/environment and since christianity astrology was forgotten about and now re-discovered, this is very apparent when you take newgrange,pyramids and stonehenge into account.

I'd imagine there was equal status amonst all men and women in pagan times.

The calendar was used aqs a guide and ogham stones kept reference to dates and events in the year, also the trees native to the areas.

Was there anything before paganism?

I think the hatred towards polytheism by Christianity is due to one of the 10 commandments and there beliefs

Though shall not worship false or graven images, and there is no other god but God.

Christianity claims it god is real and is the ONLY one, monotheism.

But you seen pagan remnants of polytheism in Catholicism ,Christianity and other Abraham faiths.

The holy trinity is a perfect example.

Revering graven images like crosses is another "pagan" trait

The ancient Romans and Greeks knew they were anthropomorphising there gods.

They had a real deist view of the universe, they knew the gods were beyond them.

So they created them into myths,people and stories to try and understand the world and universe around them.

If we are talking ancient religion then all modern day religions are derivatives of Egyptian religions.

Including all the faiths of Abraham, Judeao, Christian,Islam ect.

The Ancient Egyptians are amongst the earliest recorded Monotheists and polytheists.

If ancient Christians, Egyptians, Jews, Zoroastrians could see modern day religions.

They would consider them ALL pagan

[GrowStar]

Ive been interested in paganism for years without doing any thing about it.

I come from a lower working class background, i wouldn't even now how to

bring myself to just chat with people where i live about paganism.

I would get funny looks.

Im the sort of person that needs a belief structure to move on and prosper,

but i can't seem to make that final step.

I believe any kind of spiritual journey starts with meditation,

meditation in its self is a complete and fulfilling experience.

Wow, what a thread so far!

To each there own when it comers to belief systems and religion, I hope it brings you all fulfilment. As for the original post, I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents :-)

Paganism as a term does not refer to any system or structure of beliefs. Rather, the term was used to refer to animism and shamanistic cultures, usually by Christendom. It was the very lack of organisation that determined the pagans. Some of the more established or complex belief systems were dismissed AS pagan by Christendom (most notably the Greco-Roman pantheon and the Norse Gods). You find pagans in Australia, The Americas, Europe Africa and Asia who share little or no common beliefs yet they are placed in the same category. Perhaps one might argue that the only essential aspect of Paganism is that it lacks the organisation and popularity of the established religions. This is mostly due to a lack of scripture or documentation. (All major religions have a very old book!) There is also an element of imperialism too, the pagan (less organised societies) fell to the the expanding advanced societies (who had an established body of beliefs).

Modernity has seen a revival or return to these spiritualities. However, of what survives is only a fragment of some few societies. What does happen is that features survive in contemporary religion. (The Christmas tree is one). Not all, in fact very few, pagan traditions practice meditation. This was for a select few people if any at all (usually a shaman) and not everyone was a shaman! These belief systems had a functional purpose in society, not everyone was looking for the meaning of life and a transcendental experience. Some people just wanted to live.

If you are looking to make sense of your spirituality and religious side the I recommend YOU DON"T go shopping around a belief system that most appeals to you or offers the most evidence or whatever.... This is a recipe for disaster! The structure, prosperity and fulfilment you are hoping for won't just be realised through some 'best fit' schema. You have already stated 'I believe any kind of spiritual journey starts with meditation' have you stopped to consider that maybe it doesn't? Or perhaps, 'what is meditation and what are its different forms?' While I am inclined to agree with the benefits of meditation I am just concerned that you are presupposing your ends. Again, there are/were many pagans who don't meditate. Also, Buddhist and Christian meditation are different (to a degree).

I've met may people with similar concerns as yourself and I must say your spiritual health is important. Might I suggest that you start not by looking into religions and spiritualities but instead read some philosophy. Philosophy does not require you to adhere to a system of beliefs but does offer a systemic approach to understanding. Beliefs can be dangerous as if one breaks down your who system can crumble and you can be left with nothing. But your understanding of something can change and the outcome is not detrimental, instead it offers you more than you had, not leave you with nothing. After becoming acquainted with philosophy you can return to paganism if you deem fit, or read the two together.

I only write this because your post seems very familiar to me, in fact it was my very same sentiment 10 years ago. Now I am finishing my PhD in Philosophy and I have never looked back.

All the best mate and I hope you find spiritual peace.

[VapeApe]

Ive been interested in paganism for years without doing any thing about it.

I come from a lower working class background, i wouldn't even now how to

bring myself to just chat with people where i live about paganism.

I would get funny looks.

Im the sort of person that needs a belief structure to move on and prosper,

but i can't seem to make that final step.

I believe any kind of spiritual journey starts with meditation,

meditation in its self is a complete and fulfilling experience.

Wow, what a thread so far!

To each there own when it comers to belief systems and religion, I hope it brings you all fulfilment. As for the original post, I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents :-)

Paganism as a term does not refer to any system or structure of beliefs. Rather, the term was used to refer to animism and shamanistic cultures, usually by Christendom. It was the very lack of organisation that determined the pagans. Some of the more established or complex belief systems were dismissed AS pagan by Christendom (most notably the Greco-Roman pantheon and the Norse Gods). You find pagans in Australia, The Americas, Europe Africa and Asia who share little or no common beliefs yet they are placed in the same category. Perhaps one might argue that the only essential aspect of Paganism is that it lacks the organisation and popularity of the established religions. This is mostly due to a lack of scripture or documentation. (All major religions have a very old book!) There is also an element of imperialism too, the pagan (less organised societies) fell to the the expanding advanced societies (who had an established body of beliefs).

Modernity has seen a revival or return to these spiritualities. However, of what survives is only a fragment of some few societies. What does happen is that features survive in contemporary religion. (The Christmas tree is one). Not all, in fact very few, pagan traditions practice meditation. This was for a select few people if any at all (usually a shaman) and not everyone was a shaman! These belief systems had a functional purpose in society, not everyone was looking for the meaning of life and a transcendental experience. Some people just wanted to live.

If you are looking to make sense of your spirituality and religious side the I recommend YOU DON"T go shopping around a belief system that most appeals to you or offers the most evidence or whatever.... This is a recipe for disaster! The structure, prosperity and fulfilment you are hoping for won't just be realised through some 'best fit' schema. You have already stated 'I believe any kind of spiritual journey starts with meditation' have you stopped to consider that maybe it doesn't? Or perhaps, 'what is meditation and what are its different forms?' While I am inclined to agree with the benefits of meditation I am just concerned that you are presupposing your ends. Again, there are/were many pagans who don't meditate. Also, Buddhist and Christian meditation are different (to a degree).

I've met may people with similar concerns as yourself and I must say your spiritual health is important. Might I suggest that you start not by looking into religions and spiritualities but instead read some philosophy. Philosophy does not require you to adhere to a system of beliefs but does offer a systemic approach to understanding. Beliefs can be dangerous as if one breaks down your who system can crumble and you can be left with nothing. But your understanding of something can change and the outcome is not detrimental, instead it offers you more than you had, not leave you with nothing. After becoming acquainted with philosophy you can return to paganism if you deem fit, or read the two together.

I only write this because your post seems very familiar to me, in fact it was my very same sentiment 10 years ago. Now I am finishing my PhD in Philosophy and I have never looked back.

All the best mate and I hope you find spiritual peace.

Great post !!

[Boojum]

But you seen pagan remnants of polytheism in Catholicism ,Christianity and other Abraham faiths.

The holy trinity is a perfect example.

The cult of Mithras/Mithra (a Persian deity who was worshipped by members of the Roman military) is a better example. Mithras/Mithra was born on the 25th of December, the son of a God (the Sun). Mithras/Mithra had 12 followers. Mithraic ceremonies involved baptism and a meal of bread and consecrated wine. Mithras/Mithra was known as "The good shepherd.". The followers of Mithras/Mithra held Sunday sacred and believed in a heaven above and a hell below. Following his death Mithras/Mithra was buried in a tomb and rose again 3 days later. That occurred at easter, which became the most important day of worship for followers of the Mithraic religion. The Vatican is built on the site of a temple to Mithras/Mithra.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Boojum

[VapeApe]

But you seen pagan remnants of polytheism in Catholicism ,Christianity and other Abraham faiths.

The holy trinity is a perfect example.

The cult of Mithra/Mithras (a Persian deity who was worshipped by members of the Roman military) is a better example. Mithra was born on the 25th of December. Mithra had 12 followers. Mithraic ceremonies involved baptism and a meal of bread and consecrated wine. Mithra was known as "The good shepherd.". The followers of Mithra held Sunday sacred and believed in a heaven above and a hell below. Following his death Mithra was buried in a tomb and rose again 3 days later. That occurred at easter, which became the most important day of worship for followers of the Mithraic religion. The Vatican is built on the site of a temple to Mithra.

Indeed, great point Boojum.

And Mithrasism was a direct competitor of early Christianity.

[Boojum]

And the whole dying (often for the good of mankind in one way or another) and being reborn thing is not uncommon among pre-Christian religions.

There is a theory that the communion was introduced into Christianity because many religions it was competing with involved the use of psychoactive plants in their ceremonies, the bread and wine was to replace the psychoactive sacraments so the people were still being given something to consume, making it less of a change and so easier to convert them (especially if the wine was not limited to a sip, but was in fact an intoxicating amount - feed people and get them drunk for free as part of your religious ceremony, you're gonna get a lot more followers).

Edited June 26, 2010 by Boojum

[GrowStar]

Ive been interested in paganism for years without doing any thing about it....

Wow, what a thread so far!

To each there own when it comers to belief systems and religion, I hope it brings you all fulfilment. As for the original post, I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents :-)

....

I only write this because your post seems very familiar to me, in fact it was my very same sentiment 10 years ago. Now I am finishing my PhD in Philosophy and I have never looked back.

All the best mate and I hope you find spiritual peace.

Great post !!

Cheers