synack Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 A documentary about how those in power have used Freud's theories to try and control the dangerous crowd in an age of mass democracy. - Adam Curtis. http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=the%...=the%20century# I enjoyed it, but I'm quite stoned and boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father McPot Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I've seen The Power of Nightmares, which I thought was fantastic (although I don't agree with all of it). Some great interviews in it, especially the ones with ex-CIA folks. Probably watch the Century of the Self tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb1 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I saw the century of the self a while back, very interesting eye opener it was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synack Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 Yes Father, I also saw and enjoyed Power of Nightmares... Adam has a most engaging style. Plus the subject matter is right up my street Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synack Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 Just thought - if you liked that and the power of nightmares you'll probably equally enjoy "The Trap - Whatever happened to our dreams of freedom" also by Adam Curtis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father McPot Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Yeah, I'm gonna watch The Trap, too. Looks like it will be Curtis night for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeagol Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 never heard of these .. thats what i love about this place .. have got the power of nightmares up ready to watch .. cheers .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribb|e Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I've seen The Power of Nightmares, which I thought was fantastic (although I don't agree with all of it). ¿Which part(s) did you find yourself disagreeing with, Father? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father McPot Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I've seen The Power of Nightmares, which I thought was fantastic (although I don't agree with all of it). ¿Which part(s) did you find yourself disagreeing with, Father? Wasn't so much disagreement, probably should've worded it better. I felt he put too much emphasis on the ideological factors rather than the economic (oil) when discussing the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. Although I understand that the documentary was about the politics of fear, and the part that the economic factors play aren't the most important here, but I think they should've been touched upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benbits Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Hello, I watched the Trap a few days ago. I am a little confused and require some help. Positive and negative freedom what do they mean in the context of the Trap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father McPot Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Hello,I watched the Trap a few days ago. I am a little confused and require some help. Positive and negative freedom what do they mean in the context of the Trap? As I understood it, negative liberty was the type of liberty which politicians desired to implement (mainly because it was the 'safer' option). Using this liberty, people became self serving and robotic, while if positive liberty was used, people could give meaning to their lives and advance. (I'm going to watch it once more; I'm not sure if I understood it fully.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benbits Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 (edited) Hello,I watched the Trap a few days ago. I am a little confused and require some help. Positive and negative freedom what do they mean in the context of the Trap? As I understood it, negative liberty was the type of liberty which politicians desired to implement (mainly because it was the 'safer' option). Using this liberty, people became self serving and robotic, while if positive liberty was used, people could give meaning to their lives and advance. (I'm going to watch it once more; I'm not sure if I understood it fully.) I tried to read: TWO CONCEPTS OF LIBERTY, Isaiah Berlin Berlin, I. (1958) “Two Concepts of Liberty.” In Isaiah Berlin (1969) Four Essays on Liberty. Oxford: Oxford University Press. This seems to be what the definitions are based on. Hard going to say the least. Negative = all you can be within your own horizons. Positive = we will force you to be free within our horizons. Still not sure though, the Trap does not seem to make sense. Like you father I will watch again. I am thinking Labour's education, education, education, is an example of positive liberty? Since we will educate you and broaden your horizons. This will make you more free. Edited November 21, 2009 by benbits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father McPot Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Negative = all you can be within your own horizons. Positive = we will force you to be free within our horizons. Other way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benbits Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 (edited) Negative = all you can be within your own horizons. Positive = we will force you to be free within our horizons. Other way round. I am still unsure father perhaps I have been side tracked by the Berlin essay. So Labours policy of education x 3 is an example of negative freedom then? e2a here is the definition I think: hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNZ28na7ksY&feature=related starts around 5 minute mark. I'll stick with education x3 as an example of positive freedom in this context. Perhaps it is a bad example. Edited November 21, 2009 by benbits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father McPot Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Negative = all you can be within your own horizons. Positive = we will force you to be free within our horizons. Other way round. I am still unsure father perhaps I have been side tracked by the Berlin essay. So Labours policy of education x 3 is an example of negative freedom then? e2a here is the definition I think: hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNZ28na7ksY&feature=related starts around 5 minute mark. I'll stick with education x3 as an example of positive freedom in this context. Perhaps it is a bad example. I've got the essay here in my hand. I'll take a few sentences from each part of the essay just to show an outline of the concept. Negative: "Political liberty in this sense is simply the area within which a man can act unobstructed by others. If I am prevented by other persons from doing what I could otherwise do, I am to that degree unfree; and if this area is contracted by other men beyond a certain minimum, I can be described as being coerced, or, it may be, enslaved... ... Liberty in this sense means liberty from; absence of interference beyond the shifting, but always recognisable, frontier." Positive: "The 'positive' sense of the word 'liberty' derives from the wish on part of the individual to be his own master. I wish my life and decisions to depend upon myself, not on external forces of whatever kind. I wish to be the instrument of my own, not of other men's, acts of will." Sorry to be so brief, but go to go for now. About Blair's "education, education, education," I (personally – I'm not saying that it's wrong) wouldn't use that as an example, it seems too small a scope to apply to individual freedom. However, it depends on the way you look at that statement: Is it a. A lie – Did Blair actually believe it at all? And b. If it was true, whose education are we talking about? – Is it the education of the elite to discourage critical-thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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