Religious doctrine as oppressor?

[Randalizer]

hey,

So first off, I'm not any major historian or researcher. But I was wondering. In my comparitive studies it seems like a lot of the worlds major religions tend to want to destroy any opposition to their way of thinking. In fact it is my belief that humanities natural impulse to experience the (for lack of a better phrase) spiritual world has been co-opted by agencies (like governments, etc) in order to control the masses. Which is slowly being abandoned as technology (to contro the masses) improves.

Back to my original line of inquiry however. In regards to oppression; Does anyone else regard the statue of Shiva Nataraja as inherently oppressive? He is standing on the back of some poor sod struggling beneath him.

Now the story goes that this represents "higher" thought overcoming ignorance and base instincts. A good thing yes? But I wonder if it is originally meant to show higher caste so called "rightful" place over the lower caste in India? Then the more "acceptable" mythology painted over the original intent.

[Boojum]

I think Hinduism, perhaps more than any other religion still observed by a significant number of people today, is a tricky one to isolate symbolism within. One could look at the representations of Shiva in his aspect as Nataraja and infer something from the fact that he is dancing on the body of a beaten or subdued enemy, but that's really only looking at that aspect of Shiva. Hinduism is so rich in symbolism, in multiple aspects of deitys etc that really one would have to become conversant with all the aspects before making inferences.

[Guest daviie]

I think Hinduism, perhaps more than any other religion still observed by a significant number of people today, is a tricky one to isolate symbolism within. One could look at the representations of Shiva in his aspect as Nataraja and infer something from the fact that he is dancing on the body of a beaten or subdued enemy, but that's really only looking at that aspect of Shiva. Hinduism is so rich in symbolism, in multiple aspects of deitys etc that really one would have to become conversant with all the aspects before making inferences.

Or put more simply, I'm an awful wag when I'm pissed.

[Boojum]

Are you ? That's nice.

[Randalizer]

Hinduism and it's symbolisms are very multi faceted and richly layered. If I'm not mistaken, this is inherently due to it's decentralized aspect. Every locality in India has a slightly different spin on the stories. Multiply that by a few thousand years and it makes sense that meaning is hard to pin down.

However I am still suspicious.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Randalizer

[Boojum]

I'm not sure. I think the many aspects of Shiva are pretty universal in Hinduism, and I think they all need to be taken into account when considering the meanings of each one since they're all aspects of a whole. I reckon there's probably far more overt justifications of the caste system within Hinduism anyway (though I may be wrong), so I don't really think it would be necessary to bother being sneaky with symbolism.

[Randalizer]

hegemony is very sneaky....

[Canabizbob]

Symbolism's one of my favourite subjects,once you start to understand symbolism,

you can really start to put the pieces of the puzzle together.

Bob.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Canabizbob

[pinhead1337]

I've seen Kali and Durga in that very same pose I think the dieties or at least their names are interchangeable in some cases

[Boojum]

I think most depictions of Kali are dancing on a headless corpse with the head being held by the hair in one of the hands, and the contents of each hand is symbolic. It's what I means about there being SO much symbolism in Hinduism.

But I could be wrong, fairly drunk at the moment.

[Randalizer]

mmmm Kali! I name different areas of my grow room after Durga, Parvati and Kali.

One story of Kali is that she cuts the head off of the corpse of Shiva. Another story is that she has sex with his prone corpse. Apparently the ol goat can still get it going after being beheaded. That would be the left hand cultists as I recall, who worship this aspect of Her.

Then there are Shivite cults that sprinkle ashes on their naked bodies and dance around, sometimes in graveyards. Real popular those folks!

I have a great book that links the shivite cults with the very early Dionysisan cults. It's called "Gods of Love and Ecstasy. The traditions of Shiva and Dionysus." and is by a deceased french scholar Alain Danielou. Great book despite it's heavy patriarchal slant.

Edited October 17, 2008 by Randalizer