Enlightenment

[ninorc]

So you have to be perceived to be enlightened, to be so?

Maybe not, but I don't think you can declare yourself to be enlightened and expect widespread agreement. Actions, not words, define us. I refer you to the point about Buddha being a title. Did Gautama confer it upon himself?

[cf]

Is enlightenment objective or subjective?

neither

[Guest roger]

So you have to be perceived to be enlightened, to be so?

Maybe not, but I don't think you can declare yourself to be enlightened and expect widespread agreement. Actions, not words, define us. I refer you to the point about Buddha being a title. Did Gautama confer it upon himself?

No danger of me getting anywhere near declaring myself anything, anytime soon

[DtH]

"If I see a boundary, I eat a boundary...and wash it down with a hot steaming cup of rules."

Howard Moon.

omg i love this. kinda relevant too.

[kilgore trout]

roger, dt suzuki did a great book mainly discribing to us westerners what enlightenment, according to zen buddhism, and zen buddhism in general, is

its a relatively quick read and he is certified enlightened (what ever that means), so he should know (what ever that means)

"living by zen" d.t suzuki

[Bacchus1]

On a somewhat less scholastic note "The Razors Edge" by Somerset Maugham made a big impression on me when I was about 16. The passage where Larry reaches enlightenment whilst watching the sun rise above a mirror still lake in the Himalayas affected me very deeply.

It is by no means one of the great works of theology or philosophy BUT I think that is part of its charm. It is very accessible and yet at the same time does cover some pretty important issues.

Either way, at the difficult age of 16 this book, and particularly that passage, had a very powerful effect on me.

I read the book again the other day and it had not lost too much of its charm. In fact it would be more accurate to say that it had lost none if its charm, it’s just that I probably have.

I have had a few fleeting moments of “semi-enlightenment” over the years, one even lasting a few weeks, but to my disappointment and frustration the pernicious web of greed, anger, ambition, fear and aggression that so typifies our western culture always manages to disturb my peace and drag me back in to the shallow and agitated reality that I had managed to escape so briefly and tenuously.

One huge thing I have noticed in these moments of calm and contentedness is that even without saying anything, people, even strangers, automatically respond to you so much more warmly.

Also have you even noticed how fast, hard and shallow your breathing is normally? You don’t even realise it until you pay attention. In my rare moments of calm the one huge change I notice is my breathing. Slow, deep and relaxed and gentle. Almost as if your soul is in charge of your lungs rather than your heart of your head. Soul breathing – it has a certain ring to it.

Interestingly enough it’s a little bit like when you are stoned, but you have perfect clarity of thought as well as that deeply pleasant relaxed feel.

Anyway ramble over. Great thread.

Keep breathing!

[Whiteychild]

http://thehiddenlighthouse.blogspot.com/ This website describes the rising of kundalini energy up the spinal cord through the back chakras as a step to enlightenment, thought the bit about imagining ohm (0) inside you works well for filtering out any distraction and improves posture and concentration as you can visualise where your internal organs are and stop any fidgeting which loses positive energy, and a load of bullshit about the matrix.

[Blayz'd]

i had the privilege to see mr krishnamurti speak in madras before he died, he has plenty to say on the subject of enlightenment and he says it without using too many long words.

Thanks for that CF. I like him.

Uncontaminated by thought. Good way to put it.

[ninjagear]

deoxy.org

[Guest gunnaknow]

Enlightenment is undefinable and unquantifiable to the unenlightened. It is that which you have never experienced, so how could someone explain it to you in a way that you could understand, without you having directly experienced it for yourself? Ponder for some time on the analogies from two common zen parables, if you will.

Two tadpoles are swimming in a pond. Suddenly one turns into a frog and leaves the pond. Upon the frog’s return to the water, the tadpole sees the frog and asks, “Where did you go?”

“I went to a dry place, ” answers the frog.

“What is ‘dry’?” asks the tadpole.

“Dry is where there is no water,” says the frog.

“And what is ‘water’?” asks the tadpole.

“You don’t know what ‘water’ is?” the frog says in disbelief. “It’s all around you! Can’t you see it?”

In a pond were many tadpoles. They swarm about in their watery world, puzzled, sometimes, by the glow that rose, progressed across the ceiling of their domain, then disappeared. The glow was warm, bright, pleasant. One day, one of them turned, as tadpoles do, into a frog. Reveling in it's new freedom, the frog hopped onto a lotus leaf, and observed the dry world outside the pond. When he hopped back and dove into the water, the tadpoles asked him to explain, at last, the mystery of the glow they had so yerned for.

"It is a perfect circle" said the frog.

"Circle?" queried the tadpoles.

"It is bright enough to bring tears to your eyes," said the frog after some thinking.

"Tears?" asked the tadpoles.

Whatever explanation the frog gave, he found that the tadpoles lacked the basic concepts to understand his explanation. Finally, the exasperated frog growled that there was only one way the tadpoles could possibly understand what the sun was: to turn into frogs themselves.

The real question you should be asking isn't "what is enlightenment" but "am I willing to put in the work to find out for myself?" Go ahead, ask yourself that very question.

[tinker234]

To become enlightened is to become aware and comprehending of the true nature of reality. Have fun, Tinker

[ramblingmadman]

Enlightenment

Spain in another age. I was a small kid brought up in a very conservative Catholic environment. I used to watch my mother put all her money in a collection plate and then pretend to be busy whilst we ate because she didn't have enough money to feed all of us. One day I heard our priest passing by, and saw his bags with all the brandy he bought with the collection money.

In the animated version of my life story a lightbulb appears above my head at this point.

knowing indeed .

peace

[Comrade Stoker]

Covey says that a paradigm shift is like enlightenment.....................................

Covey was traveling in a subway, a man gets in with his two sons, the sons are running all over the place bothering the people, this continues, so he finally gets irritated enough to ask the father why he doesn't do something to control his kids. The father replies, "We just got back from the hospital where their mother died. I don't know how to handle it and I guess they don't either."

Suddenly you see the everything differently

[weed_G]

if you mean Enlightenment with a capital E:

for me Enlightenment is to gain an objective understanding of the Universe and your place in it

[Guest roy cropper]

Pulling your head out of your arse thats enlightenment