Why Exist At All?

[cf]

This existence is a prison of sorts

<<<And when I was at Findhorn, I met this extraordinary English tree expert, who had devoted his life to saving trees. He just got back from Washington, lobbying to save the redwoods? He's eighty-four years old and he always travels with a back-pack 'cause he never knows where he's gonna be tomorrow! And when I met him at Findhorn he said to me: "Where are you from?" And I said: "New York." He said: "Ah, New York! Yes, that's a very interesting place. Do you know a lot of New Yorkers who keep talking about the fact that they want to leave but never do?" And I said: "Oh, yes!" And he said: "Why do you think they don't leave?" I gave him different banal theories. He said: "Oh, I don't think it's that way at all." He said: "I think that New York is the new model for the new concentration camp, where the camp has been built by the inmates themselves, and the inmates are the guards, and they have this pride in this thing they've built, they've built their own prison. And so they exist in a state of schizophrenia, where they are both guards and prisoners. And as a result they no longer have, having been lobotomized, the capacity to leave the prison they've made, or to even see it as a prison. And then he went into his pocket and he took out a seed for a tree, and he said: "This is a pine tree." He put it in my hand and he said: "Escape, before it's too late.>>>

[Blayz'd]

That's brilliant cf

I understand it. Thanks mate.

[cf]

if you liked that little clip its from Louis Malles 'My Dinner with Andre'

i've actually only met one other person who has seen this film, she was the daughter of a man who took a traveling cinema around australia before there were picture houses in the small towns, playing to the poor people and out of the way aboriginal settlements.

she was a proper cinema fan and had seen the most amount and the most variety of films of anyone i had ever met but when we started to rave about unusual films we both said 'have you ever seen a film called 'my dinner with andre' simultaneously! i dont think we'd either of us met anyone else who'd seen it.

its a film thats nearly two hours long that consists almost entirely of a conversation between wallace shawn and andre gregory playing themselves and the script is a pared down version of several actual conversations that the two friends had over a period of time.

i find it hard to extol the virtues of a film in which nothing 'happens' there is no plot and two men chat about stuff over a meal but it has to be one of my favourite films.

[Blayz'd]

Thanks bro, I did like it. Gonna go check the newsgroups for it now.

Oh, before I watched that vid I had considered we had built a prison for ourselves, a prison with no walls, an invisible prison, a prison many people don't know or understand. I believe we are not free, mankind is not free. We created this ourselves. The way that man puts it describes it perfectly. We all live in a prison where the walls and bars are replaced by systems, laws and bureaucracy, a prison where the guards operate under the guise they are there to help.

I understand his points about enlightenment and unity too. Good stuff man, i sure do like it.

Another answer to the question. We exist to discover ourselves, to discover the true power we hold within us. To what end is anyones guess.

Another thing I've considered, which is offtopic but I'll add it cos its on my mind, is that what is described by religion as "heaven" and "hell" are both here in this existance. They aren't what is generally imagined they are. They exist here, good and bad, ying and yang, positive and negative.

My belief is there's a reason for everything to exist. I see intelligence everywhere. There's an intelligence at work which tells plants to sprout from the ground. Each blade of grass has some kind of intelligence behind it. It's hard to imagine at first, due to the perception of what intelligence is. I've heard people say plants can't have intelligence. This isn't so. Just because they have no brain, no concious thought (that we know of) doesn't mean there isn't intelligence behind them. There's an intelligence behind everything. The question is what is the source of this intelligence. Which makes me wonder.... Are we the source?

Interesting stuff. If I could get paid to think this stuff up all day while smoking some killer green I'd jump at it.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Blayz'd

[Guest Dr Benways Assistant]

Holy shit, just looked for that film on Amazon and there's a copy going for £226! Looks really good though, would be great if someone could find a link to watch the rest.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Dr Benways Assistant

[Father McPot]

Yeah, cheers, cf.

just looked for that film on Amazon and there's a copy going for £226!

Don't dare look for a copy in eBay then.

[Boojum]

I think a lot of the depression that so many people are taking prozac for is really an inability to live in what is laughingly called modern society. I know a significant portion of my illness is - not all, there's definitely something, for want of a better word, organic about severe manic depression, but having to deal with the modern world makes it worse. I can just about deal with it so long as I don't have to deal with 'reality'.

[cf]

theres a torrent of 'Andre' doing the rounds, in fact a while back i was so desperate to see it after catching it on tv ages ago that i made myself learn how to use bittotternt, of course like anything else its easy once you know how but it took me six weeks to d/l it ....i'm sure i had it all set up wrong and the film was in dvd architecture so it was about 4.3 Gig!

now theres a 700ish Meg avi file that looks really good that i got in a day only last week , now all i need is a cheap dvd player that plays divx files and i can put several of these unusual films on one dvd and free up my hdd.

My belief is there's a reason for everything to exist. I see intelligence everywhere. There's an intelligence at work which tells plants to sprout from the ground. Each blade of grass has some kind of intelligence behind it. It's hard to imagine at first, due to the perception of what intelligence is. I've heard people say plants can't have intelligence. This isn't so. Just because they have no brain, no conscious thought (that we know of) doesn't mean there isn't intelligence behind them. There's an intelligence behind everything. The question is what is the source of this intelligence. Which makes me wonder.... Are we the source?

i dont think we are the source , my first post in this thread was prompted by the OP ,we are just the most developed manifestation of the 'life force'

baba ku seems to think that suffering and the existence of some higher intelligence are incompatible.if there was a god why does he let all the bad things go on...of course the stock answer in a lot of religion is that we as a species have strayed from the path of righteousness and to get back to the 'garden of eden' we need to be forgiven our sins and busy ourselves following a more correct way of life usually one written down in an old book.

buddhism differs from this world view , it doesnt acknowledge that there is a higher power.all the other religions have a whole mass of texts and beliefs in sometimes fanciful ideas or other worlds, heaven ,hell etc. buddhism deals with life in a much more practical way.i'd say it has more in common with present day psycological study and philosophy than it does with religion.

a 'religious person' upon seeing suffering might firstly attribute that suffering to some sin against the religion he follows and see the answer in the reinforcement of the religions principles he holds dear. a buddhist would first examine his own reaction to that suffering making sure that he really sees what he is seeing with equanimity and then if he acted his actions would be of a practical nature.

i'd quite like baba ku to come back on this, my understanding of buddhism is incomplete (as is my understanding of everything ) so i'd lke to see what he thinks

ps , the great monsieur malle also made a fantastic documentary on india some short excerpts are here http://www.youtube.com/user/whyraj

Edited March 7, 2008 by cf

[Culchi]

At the same time, on the original topic, "Why exist at all?", I often ask myself the same question.

[Billowin'smoke]

i though that the whole essence of buddhism is that there was no acknowledged higher authority than us, perhaps i'm not paying any attention to the various spin off dogmatic mind control type belief systems that derive from buddhism, but the original teachings (right mindfullness,right actions etc ) are a way to reach buddhahood , a state attainable by every person.

why the suffering? thats not really the question is it ? more time how to relive ourselves of the burden of suffering and free ourselves from the shackles of craving and aversion.

buddhism is all the more relevant today as we seem to be on the brink of devouring our own planet with our current system, a system based on greed , competition and hoarding.

if we can transcend this mind set that has been our evolutionary directive and has ensured our survival and development for many years but is now looking like its to be our downfall then we will survive and thrive as a species.

buddhism directly addresses these problems as far as i can see

Exactly wot you said (although the pedant in me needs to say that it's not strictly buddhahood which is the by-everyone attainable state, according to early Buddhism at least, and that the 'why' question is crucial, because by removing the causes one can remove the results). Metta!

Edited March 9, 2008 by Billowin'smoke

[drtwo]

The life that I seemingly have is only a one shot opportunity. The question whether to live it or not is easily answered by the choice that lies within. When you choose to live you keep the options open but when you choose to part from this world there is no return ticket. As long as I seem to have a productive feature I would like to see how it turns out.

:note:this is based upon my beliefs that once dead you're really totally dead :wink:

[herbieflowers]

something we won't ever know ironically....

[aw33wa]

we are all being watched every day ,every single person by god ,higher beings or who ever

they have the power to decide wether your indervidual energy has got what it takes to go to the next level or be demoted

i suspect it takes a lot more than not comiting sins , a certain type of person probably a very small percetage of us, probably not me

i think there going to make there minds up soon ,wether they should have botherd or not with the whole thing

i think humanity is an experiment ,a what if we tryed this and se what happens thing

my brains hurting so i wil skip to the answer

THE MEANING OF LIFE is to protect your children if you have no kidds get a dog

[herbieflowers]

the meaning of life is I am the meaning of life

[herbieflowers]

Basically I choose the meaning of my life