weed_G Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 maybe the thing that separates humans from everything else is our ability for abstract thought...which allows us to operate outside our physical evolution and even the laws of nature to a certain extent ..ok some animals use tools to crack open nuts etc..but I don't think that's the same thing as the ability to see the bottom of the deepest oceans or leaving the planet altogether and going into space..abstract thought ..might be a dark side to abstraction ..maybe that's where 'meaningless' cruelty comes from ..iow there is no practically reason for it ..only an abstract one ..maybe its impossible to be cruel unless you can first think about it abstractly ..pre meditated if you like as for AI ...humans have evolved over countless millions of years from single cell amoebas to highly complex biological organisms with the ability for self awareness etc..matter than knows it exists ...the mind boggles just thinking about itself ...so no way in hell you can make a machine that can replicate what humans can do ...how do you teach a machine to know it exists ...game over ..insert coin .tbh even making something basic like an ant is impossible ..never mind mimicking a human ps a good movie that covers the subject of this thread, and possible the biggest movie ever made in terms of ideas is kubrick's 2001, when the monolith appears amongst the monkeys ..the black blank box represents the arrival of 'abstract though' ..after you see the monkey using a bone to smash some other bones(long picked clean) ..and he works out he can use the bone as a weapon to fight the other monkeys ..who haven't worked it out yet ...after the resultant monkey war and the monkeys with the bone regain their territory ..it shows the bone again ..and then cuts to the future in space ..and the space ship is shaped like the bone :wink: ... ..kubrick was a genius ..made in 1967 ... pull up a spliff, go full screen name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>"> name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 maybe its impossible to be cruel unless you can first think about it abstractly ..pre meditated if you like :wink: That's kinda what I was grasping at in my post, but failed to enunciate And 2001 remains one of my very favourite films, it's been fashionable recently to dismiss it as a load of nonsense. Perhaps those that choose to do that simply don't understand it... It's a great film, but beyond that it's a work of visionary genius, especially the opening sequence with the apes and the monolith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grandad Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 as i see it there are only 2 options, we are just one animal among many, the way we are built gives us power over other animals, we are evolving, lets hope nothing evolves quicker than us. or we come from another planet, sound stupid until i think how we are absolutely incompatable with this planet, we dont appear to fit in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weed_G Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) aye booj, ..kubricks camera shots are almost like stills they go on so long ..hes always trying to show you something interesting in these shots .. his placement of actors and props etc ..almost like paintings ..not to mention the underlying symbolism and messages ....think he pissed a lot of people off for refusing to completely explain 2001 ..only noticed a few weeks ago that leonard rositer from rising damp is in it Edited October 21, 2009 by weed_G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 (edited) weed_G …maybe the thing that separates humans from everything else is our ability for abstract thought. so no way in hell you can make a machine that can replicate what humans can do ...how do you teach a machine to know it exists ...game over ..insert coin .tbh even making something basic like an ant is impossible ..never mind mimicking a human Abstract thought seems to be what makes us top of the evolutionary chain. I saw a prog once where the prof speculated it was harnessing fire and gazing into it that released this ability. (can source if anyone wants). Rings true for me I love to gaze into a fire. Making an artificial human is simply a case of reverse engineering. The rate at which computers evolve is not comparable to the human evolutionary timescale. It will be done imo. e2a my god it's full of stars (genius) OT warning hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCxZkxDa15U&feature=related ( his war stuff can make me cry ) Edited October 22, 2009 by stickybackplastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I don’t want to be the philosophy sections thread killer. Someone post and I will try my hardest to stay silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hir Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 aye booj, ..kubricks camera shots are almost like stills they go on so long ..hes always trying to show you something interesting in these shots .. his placement of actors and props etc ..almost like paintings ..not to mention the underlying symbolism and messages ....think he pissed a lot of people off for refusing to completely explain 2001 ..only noticed a few weeks ago that leonard rositer from rising damp is in it "My God, Miss Jones, we're full of lodgers..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scraglor Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 does a piece of living tissue in a petri dish have a soul? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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