Arnold Layne Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Is a soul an essential part of being alive I don't think you've quite grasped what I said about soul in my post. There is no such thing, soul is just a way we have of describing behaviour, its not a thing to be owned or had or isolated to some human organ as its resting place. Therefore, to be a living human is to be a living soul. And I did stray into other areas in my post, but at this time of day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roger Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Therefore, to be a living human is to be a living soul. so as I wish to understand this to a greater degree, do you think that the technological mind transfer could ever be possible on philosophical grounds, and if not why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 (edited) As mind does not have any concrete existence, but is rather a way of describing human cognitive behaviour, I don't believe it can be transferred. They may transfer something, but whether or not it is human "mind" o "soul" I very much doubt. Will robots be called "souls" or "minds"? Maybe. After all, the terms are merely human descriptions of observed pehenomena. Most of us anthropomorphise at the drop of a hat after all. Its a very human trait, part of our being minds and souls I suspect. E2a Got a dog to walk, must dash. Hence possible incomplete thoughts Edited January 4, 2008 by Arnold Layne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roger Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 another suggestion for a test, assuming that it was technicaly possbible - a mind transfered from a body to a machne and then back again should be essentialy the same person. I am still uncertain as to why you are unsure about the transfer concept, assuming that a complete replica model could be constructed. It is not the specifics of how the act might take place that concerns me, rather the underlying concept. In the same way, becase some people may see a machine as alive does not necessarily make it so, what are the objective criteria that we can judge from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 (edited) I am still uncertain as to why you are unsure about the transfer concept, assuming that a complete replica model could be constructed. What is to be transferrred? What is to be replicated? I've already said I don't believe mind has objective existence. So I really don't see how it can be transferred. To reduce thoughts to binary and transfer them is all very well, but that's not a mind or soul transfer. The definition is being begged. And TBH, what a waste of human intelligence that we try to do this. When so many are starving and dying, we try this? Shamefuly ridiculous IMO. The folks involved should be doing something useful, like finding ways of feeding the world, of restoring the environment etc etc. AI? Pfft! We have not yet begun to act intelligently as humans, so replicating it is a tad mistimed. Artificial Stupidity, anyone? Edited January 4, 2008 by Arnold Layne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roger Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 (edited) I am not suggesting that this should be done as such, rather wanting to explore the nature of the issues. If as you say the mind is a descriptive term, what is the nature of it; do you belive that it is a purely physical thing or is there something else beyond our current understanding in your opinion? Edited January 4, 2008 by roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 If as you say the mind is a descriptive term, what is the nature of it; do you belive that it is a purely physical thing or is there something else beyond our current understanding in your opinion? Oh dear, I must not be speaking clearly today. You really have not grasped my point at all. How can a descriptive term have a nature or be physical? Other than that it is a word, a vibration. Most things are beyond human understanding by a huge margin. When humans claim to understand (to have a complete intellectual comprehesion of a subject), they invariably talk out of their back ends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roger Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Oh dear, I must not be speaking clearly today. well I wasn't going to be so rude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Oh dear, I must not be speaking clearly today. well I wasn't going to be so rude Yerssss... Me neither Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roger Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 (edited) seriously, I don't mean to try to be confrontational in this thread, rather explore issues and maybe gain an insight into other people opinions on this, without tring to argue a point to death. If I have misunderstood your point, please expand upon it - if you explain, that you are coming from a particular stand point this helps understanding. Edited January 4, 2008 by roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Roger I have no intention of explaining any further, simpy because I think I've made my point as clearly as I can already. But you have misunderstood it - and there seem little I can do about that. In any case, we'll bore evryone to death with our constant back and forth. Best leave it as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roger Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Roger I have no intention of explaining any further, simpy because I think I've made my point as clearly as I can already. But you have misunderstood it - and there seem little I can do about that. In any case, we'll bore evryone to death with our constant back and forth.Best leave it as it is. fair enough. I am still interested in the subject, and would love to discuss other peoples points of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roger Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I dont need to sell my soul, he's already in me stone roses "i wanna be adored" makes sense to me ,why would i want to give my soul to technology ,when technology is so inferior in comparison I'm not suggesting that you should want to do that, I thnk that an appreciation of this question would increase understanding of what it is to be alive, at least in my little brain, whitch I'm sure could be backed up to a 1.44Mb floppy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 the google video I posted in this thread a few weeks back pretty much explains why it would be impossible to transfer a human consciousness into a machine ( or indeed to create an artificial consciousness ), basically speaking no matter how complex we design a computer it'll never be able to replicate the functions of the human brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roger Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 (edited) basically speaking no matter how complex we design a computer it'll never be able to replicate the functions of the human brain. I will watch that video in due course mate, but it strikes me as defeatist to just say that we as humans in in the fullness of time could never achive that goal; I admit that with classical computing that the task seems impossible but the quantum computing machines of the very near future may very well change that. Also, I'm not trying to consider the technology of today or the next 50 years, rather the the though experiment. Edited January 4, 2008 by roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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